Foxhole Symphony
Foxhole Symphony
The Pursuit of Manliness with Jarrett Samuel
In our latest episode of Foxhole Symphony, we welcome Jarrett Samuels, the dynamic force behind the Pursuit of Manliness podcast, who shares his incredible journey from merely existing to living a purpose-driven life of faith. Jarrett opens up about his transformative experiences, from his childhood in the church to the birth of his son, which reignited his commitment to God. His story is a testament to how renewed faith can reshape personal roles and mission, impacting his life as a husband, father, and pastor.
Listen as we uncover Jarrett's passion for building a global community of men focused on spiritual growth and genuine connections. Learn how "The Tribe," a community that started from a simple Facebook post, grew into a comprehensive discipleship program, bringing men together through daily Bible readings and weekly challenges. Jarrett also introduces "The Herd," a platform offering exclusive content and retreat experiences, and discusses the unique challenges introverts might face in these communities. The discussion highlights the power of finding godly men who inspire and support one another, creating a kingdom-minded network that transcends generations.
Dive into a compelling exploration of authenticity, vulnerability, and heart change in men's groups, as Jarrett emphasizes the importance of honest relationships within families and communities. We discuss the significance of being proactive in one's faith journey and the need to protect one's heart from bitterness. Hear inspiring stories of men who have found strength through community connections, and discover upcoming retreats and initiatives designed to foster a stronger, more connected community. This episode is filled with practical insights and encouragement for men seeking to embrace authentic masculinity through faith and fellowship.
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Welcome to Foxhole Symphony, a podcast about the transformational value of men in authentic community.
Speaker 2:In our foxhole. Men are equipped to build relationships that foster belonging, accountability and growth.
Speaker 1:Stop believing the lie that you can thrive in isolation and instead join us on the journey from broken to whole.
Speaker 3:Hello everyone. They call me the Maestro and we are back in the foxhole where we actively pursue belonging, accountability and growth through authentic relationships. No masks, no agendas, just iron, sharpening iron. Steve and Mark are in the foxhole and they have a special guest joining them today. It's going to be a good one. Get comfortable, open your notes app and let's get started.
Speaker 2:Hey, welcome back to Foxhole Symphony Podcast. I'm Sarge here with my good buddy, mark hey brother, how are you?
Speaker 1:That's me hitting the microphone, sorry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, baby, hey, listen. Normally we'll spend about five minutes talking about the weather differences between Jersey and Florida. Instead of doing that, I'm so excited about our guest today. I want to jump right in and make the most of our time. And so why don't you? Why don't you tee him up?
Speaker 1:Sure, sure. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Jared Samuels. He's the creator of the Pursuit of Manliness podcast, among other things. And, jared, welcome to the Foxhole.
Speaker 4:Hey man, Thank you for letting me be on your show with you.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's great to have you and, as I said to you off air, I think we have some things in common that'll make this fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, brother. So listen, I want to just kick us off. I mean, we, um I definitely want to save time to get to the pursuit of manliness, uh, because it is so close to to our hearts, uh, the Fox hall, and Mark and I personally, um, just just love what you're doing and want people to hear more about that. But I'd love to just start with a little bit about your journey, man. What brought you to the pursuit of manliness? And just tell us a little bit about your journey.
Speaker 4:You know, the truth is I was raised in church. It didn't take. Now it's on me and I kind of had to go just live this disaster of a life. And it got to a point on the Y2K when everyone's computer was going to go collapse. I didn't have anything so I didn't worry about any of my technology.
Speaker 4:But there was a gathering at our little town a day or two after January 1st 2000. So probably January 3rd-ish, there's a guy speaking and he has this altar call and I'm there by myself. I don't know what I'm doing there, but I'm there and I thought you know what, I know what's right and I know what I need to do. So I went forward and God and I kind of had a conversation, just he and I. Nobody was with me, nobody hugged me, nobody touched me, nothing. I turned around and I think I just walked right out of the arena. I just walked to my car and went home and I thought what am I going to do now? So fortunately I was friends with this girl. Her dad was my pastor and now she's my wife. And so here I am, you know, fast forwarding all this time. But man, I end up feeling that God's called a ministry, all this stuff. And the problem I'm getting to is I just was going through the motions.
Speaker 4:I wasn't a bad guy, I just wasn't a man of God. I was a Christian man, I was a pastor, I was a husband, as a father, and it was the day that my son was born, where he had a collapsed lung. We're in the NICU. I'm throwing off all these popcorn prayers and I just prayed God, if you'll help this boy fight, then I'll fight. And I remember thinking that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard, because there was no fight in me, I was just existing.
Speaker 4:Fast forward two years later, man, the Holy Spirit just reminds me of those words and from that moment on there's been a fire kindled inside me and my wife has told me twice now and I don't have it recorded either time. I wish I did. She said I've been married to two guys. I had the guy I was married to and now I have a man of God. And I can't make her say that. I wish I could. I wish I could make her say that. But that's her seeing a difference in me that she sees day in and day out. So, by the grace of God, Love.
Speaker 2:that. That's amazing. It's amazing. You said a lot in that short, short bit of time, like wow. So so what did life look like? I mean, I think you know, when you say like man of God, the words that come to mind and the words I tend to use are you know when, when a man's faith is like truly activated, you know like there's this activation point where they come alive in Christ right, and they become clear on their mission and purpose, and you know who they are in Christ and all and all their roles, whether it be husband, dad, you know, friend, boss, whatever it is. What did life look like prior to that for you?
Speaker 4:Well, like I said, I felt God's call to ministry. I went back to school, I get my degree, all this stuff and I'm fast forward, a lot of things here but I was a good pastor. I worked my tail off, I worked. I was a children's pastor, I mean, I tried to do all these good things. But Proverbs talks about the sluggard and I definitely wasn't a sluggard at the office, but I was a sluggard at home. I'll give you an example.
Speaker 4:I remember sitting in my living room watching a football game I'm working on my little TV tray and my MacBook on family ministry and how we got to get this family ministry figured out and my message and whatever. And in the back room my wife was with our one-year-old, two-year-old daughter and she's reading her Bible stories every night. And I'm sitting there thinking you are a hypocrite. Here you are saying we need to do this. And I always thought well, she's little, there's no. Well, doggone it. She's 19 years old now and going off to school. It's amazing how quick that happens. And so I was. Like I said, I was a Christian man.
Speaker 4:Christian men are safe. They don't cuss a lot, you know. They're pretty good to be around. They're not going to get you in trouble, whatever. A man of God is different. A man of God's presence is different. Their investment's different. They give more than they take. They understand the law of cultivation Like there's a switch that flips and I don't think you can go back once it flips, once your, once your heart is is turned that way. Look out and you're about to get real uncomfortable, in a good way man, that is, um, that is so awesome.
Speaker 2:Um, I love just the words that you're using are so powerful and, and you know mark's grinning and I'm grinning because we've seen it, we've experienced it and we've seen it and and you know, we've been talking about how men are dying in the pews and and people kind of look at us sideways a little bit, that you know they're like confused by that, you know in some respects, but they're just, you know, a bit asleep at the wheel, right, good, good, decent Christian men, right, no, no, the Lord, but they're just chugging along, right, and um, what you're talking about is is is very, very different. Um, man, I just, I just love that, mark, jump in.
Speaker 1:Sure I I. What I love about Jarrett and what I've learned in listening to him you know, with with other podcasts, guests on on his uh, on Palm is that he doesn't spend a lot of time looking back. You notice, like you're asking him about who he is and what he is, what he's done and he's talking about from here forward, forward, and I love that that. That's so us.
Speaker 1:We have this bias, we call it a bias towards action Jared, and it's all driven by the Holy spirit of like, well, what can we do for the Lord next? And we are reminded in that conversation and Sarge is actually very good at this, I'm not maybe not so much me, but the being still like just taking a deep breath and thinking through, you know, giving the Lord a chance and getting out of his way. I have a couple of bar stools here behind me and I always joke with Sarge. I'm like, lord, can you just sit right there and I'll be right with you and I'll get right to you as soon as I need you. I'm going to, I'm going to do this in my own strength and then I'll get to you when things don't work out my way. That's one of the laments of my life is putting putting Jesus in the corner. Can you relate to that?
Speaker 4:Oh, a hundred percent. I there's been so many times where I've just smacked the wall in burnout. You know I'd have all these tasks and all these things and what I would recognize every once in a while is there's no substance to it. There was no growth. I mean, you can, you can kick out, you guys can kick out a podcast today, every day, but that doesn't mean there's any substance to it. There's no real growth.
Speaker 4:And I think you have to have some mile markers. You have to pause long enough. There is a time to look back, like there's a time to say, okay, where have I gone and I call it inventory your life. Well, I've looked at like, where I've lived, my ministries, I've been a part of those things, like people that God has placed in my life. But I need to identify the now and the next and you can forget all this stuff If you don't have a quiet time with the Lord every day. None of this is all just bravado If you don't pause long enough, get in the word and have that personal worship time where you're in it every single day. I mean hardly no misses, none, if you can avoid it. So just making that a priority, otherwise we're just doing hoorah, we just sell t-shirts. We just have a thing that looks like a firework. It goes off and then it's gone.
Speaker 1:The only way, any of this stuff is sustainable, is walking with the Lord and you're going to go at his pace. We agree. Now I'm going to jump onto something that obviously is very near and dear to your heart. You pull up your webpage and it's Quiet Life Community. You just talked about it. Tell us what Quiet Life Community is. It says welcome to the Quiet Life Community, right?
Speaker 4:What does that mean? Yeah, it's from 1 Thessalonians, 4, 11 and 12, aspire to live a quiet life, mind your own affairs, work with your hands, be thought well by outsiders and to be not to be dependent on anybody. And that was a verse that really like grabbed my heart during COVID. You know, everything is weird. During COVID, as a pastor, I felt like it was my job to rah-rah the church and, come on, we can do this. And actually I just talked about it Sunday, you know, just looking back and thinking that's not me, you know. And so I just told them from now on, this is what I'm doing, this is where we're going. We're going to preach Jesus. This is what we're about, and that quiet life is. We're not.
Speaker 4:Most, most Christians aren't going to be the loudest. I'm never going to be on the corner with a sandwich board and a megaphone yelling at you, but I am going to look for opportunities where I can ask how I can pray for you or encourage you, or discipleship is something that I'm really about. Looking for those things that aren't flashy, aren't fun. It's like saving money it's never fun until you need it. It's like reading books. You don't get any awards for reading books, but you're kind of building that library of Jesus in your heart and in your head. Then you're able to pull from that and that's where wisdom and application comes. So, yeah, and I changed the name to A Quiet Life and some guys didn't like it and I'm like I don't know what to tell you. This is what it is.
Speaker 2:I love it. I love it too, especially now, just given our culture. You know these, these last few years, or even even the last 10 years, 15 years. You know just the, the noise, the, the, the social media, the influencer culture, the mega church, the celebrity pastor, the, you know all of that noise, rah, rah, rah, and and and noise. And you know, to live a life of significance right, you know, means something drastically different to different people, Right, and and and what you're talking about, you know, living that, that quiet life that you're referring to, man, there's, there's no greater significance, Right, but the world, the world would look at that and say what is that? Right, you know? And so, yeah, that's, it's honorable, it's honorable and, of course, biblical. Absolutely, Go ahead, I'm sorry. Well, it's honorable, it's honorable and, of course, biblical.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Go ahead. I'm sorry.
Speaker 4:Well, it's like what you guys do. If you guys decide to run a bunch of ads, you would have thousands of listeners, You'd have thousands of downloads. That doesn't mean anybody is getting anything from it. You know like it's not hard to throw out the smoke and mirrors, and so it's literally one person at a time. Years ago I met this guy, Dean Troon. He became a mentor of mine for a number of years and I didn't meet him until he was 67. And I remember I was in my 30s and I told my wife, if I don't have an impact on anyone's life like Dean has on my life until I'm 67, I'm going to be okay with that. And so you never know, when there's someone that God's going to place in your life that you're going to just maybe change the course of the way they think or treat people, make disciples, evangelize the lost hey, in due time God cares more about those people than we do.
Speaker 1:First of all, it took about 10 minutes for us to realize Jared has a strong message. He's just who we thought he might be, and hallelujah for that. So, jared, the herd and the tribe I want you to tell us. I looked at your site, just looked at you know, I clicked all through it. But the message you clearly can articulate and you can tell the passion you have, you're sharing it with other men. You're not keeping this important message to yourself. You're telling you're a pastor, you're telling congregation, you're obviously telling other men pursuit of manliness, you have retreats, et cetera. Tell us about the herd and the tribe and then let's talk about the message you're giving to men, please.
Speaker 4:Well first of all, the tribe started with a post. I think it was December of 2017. I made a Facebook post in our what is now Quiet Life group and just said you know, like what do you need in the following year to really grow as a man? And somebody in there left a comment who said a friend, and I thought me too, because I was at a new town, new ministry, new church. I didn't have any friends, and I thought me too. So, within about 45 minutes, tribe was born. I thought, all right, we're just jumping out of this airplane. So I started reaching out to guys. I reached out to that guy.
Speaker 4:We had 10 guys who committed to doing this six-month discipleship journey. I had it laid out, the whole deal Within the first I don't know month six of the 10 quit. So I thought we're really doing something right here, I'm kidding. And so I decided, all right, let's cut that. And then I charged money for the next time, which is, you know, but what the point was.
Speaker 4:Looking at, what does this need to be? So, essentially, tribe is a six month discipleship community and we have daily Bible reading. We have weekly challenges that we do. We have, you know, 20, almost 30 zoom calls. Within that six month session we do a few marriage zoom calls. They have some things where guys can meet up.
Speaker 4:It's global. We have guys in other countries Australia, uk and Canada. Right now We've had Japan and Nigeria and other places but they're all part of one tribe. They're broken into point man groups. So if you're in a tribe of 100 plus guys, well you're in a point man group of like 15. And they're based on your region. So guys in Missouri and Iowa, they're all together. So if you wanted to meet up, it's easy to do that. And then that has grown and we're getting ready to start session 15 in a bit. But the herd was just something extra. You know, I had these guys that were buying the patches and the hats and everything I did and I thought what can I give them? That's low hanging fruit, that is of substance and you know, maybe we kind of build a unique community there and that's where the herd came and basically they get bonus podcast content on Mondays and we've done some things at the retreat where they get to come early and hang out and stuff. So yeah, it's just been neat to see that come to fruition.
Speaker 1:That's great, yeah, very cool, okay. So, taking simply that you have access, you've decided to lead these men and, like you said, you have it all laid out. You have a six month plan. You've had experience now with more than 10 men. Right, there are hundreds, it sounds like. But what are you seeing? What are you seeing in men today all around the world that lifts your spirit? What do you sense is happening? And, by the way, I'm going to also ask you what you're seeing that deflates you. You know what also concerns you, that you're seeing about men around the world. So let's start with what lifts you.
Speaker 4:Well, the first thing is there's some really sound godly men out there. I know sometimes we have that Elijah complex. Right, there's nobody left. Just take me now. Lord, you know it's over and God said I got a bunch. You know, it's like if you went to a church and you had two or three guys who really get it, and you went to another church, there's two or three guys that really get it. Imagine if you could take all those guys together what you could do. And that's kind of what tribe is in some ways. You have these high caliber humans.
Speaker 4:It has never come and sit at Jared's feet. Everything is cyclical. I do everything they do. Everybody gets to talk on Zoom calls. It's not me teaching them, talking at them, and so what happens is I learned that everybody has something to add to the conversation, but a whole bunch to take away. We're all more insecure than we'd like to admit, but when we get around other guys and you go, I got that same deal. Yeah, I stink at praying with my wife too. Well, let's hold each other accountable and make sure we don't keep stinking at praying with our wives. We're seeing the wives start to become friends. In some cases we're seeing the kids connect like these guys. Kids bring them to the retreat and connect. So that's moving out of this man thing into a. Now this is a kingdom thing.
Speaker 1:That's sorry. Ripples, right? Yeah, absolutely, we understand. We did a couple of episodes. I can't help myself, but the ripple effect of what God is up to is pretty amazing if you think about it. But thank you, that's a great answer. So, conversely, can you speak to what you're seeing in the men's community around the world that concerns you today?
Speaker 4:Well, we hide. Well, you know, I mean everyone's like well, I'm an introvert, I'm a Lone Ranger, we all are okay, like most a lot of people are, so we hide. Well, I think it's easy to start things, it's hard to finish things. We don't really want accountability. We say we do, but the reality is we oftentimes want a life coach. We want someone to say now, did you tuck your kids in it? No, forget that. Like, get on, let's do the things we said we're going to do. And so when those things happen, again back to that point.
Speaker 4:Every guy's got insecurities, every guy's got things that we worry about. Do I measure up? And for some men they just can't overcome it. I remember seeing a guy at one of our zoom calls. He sent me a message. He said I think I'm in the wrong space. And what he meant was boy, what they're talking about just is I'm just not ready for this. And I said, no, you're exactly in the right space. But I couldn't convince him otherwise. Now this guy does something on his side thing and I see that he leads classes and stuff. And I thought what would happen if someone went up to him and said I think I'm in the wrong class. I think he would tell them no, you're in the right class, but when it came to spiritual, spiritual things, he quit. And I think it's easy to quit spiritual things, and then we just kind of masquerade as a Christian when in reality there's no fruit coming from our life.
Speaker 1:Sorry, it sounds a lot like caves. We had a. We speak about caving up. Men have this. What we've learned we're calling men out of the darkness because we're so darn good at no-transcript.
Speaker 2:I like to be comfortable, right, uh, and so you know, um, you know there's I don't know what it is exactly other than the Holy Spirit, or just suffering, or coming to the end of yourself, the end of your rope, or some dire circumstances, right, or severe loneliness, or whatever it is that causes a man to say you know what, I want, that I want that you know, I want to sign up for that painful part, you know really what's funny is we do this tribe and we have these challenges and stuff and challenge.
Speaker 4:Some of them are really hard. Some of them are like what sin is so easily entangling you? You know what you know there there's things that, like you don't talk about in your men's ministry. And then there's lighthearted ones too, but I've seen this every set. We've done four retreats and every single year there'll be a couple of guys who will say man, I was really nervous to get out of the car and I said we're not, eharmony, what were you worried about? Like well, we don't, we don't, what do you? And they're like well, I just didn't know and I just you know they're worried about like everyone's a friend and I don't care. We got guys in all walks of life. Nobody is here concerned if you measure up to them. No, that's not. And the nice thing is, if you're willing to talk through these things, by the time you go to grab a burger or you go for a hike, whatever, I already know you're a mess man. We don't have to rehash it there's. Let's move forward and let's just become better.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, whatever it is we're hiding, whatever it is we're fearful of right, all these ideas that in our head of what we might be asked to do or what's going on out there, right. But then you know, as soon as there's a taste of true, authentic godly intimacy right In in in relationship, all of a sudden it's like you know insatiable right, like I need more of that, like I didn't, I didn't realize this even existed. This is what I've been looking for, this is what God intended, right. And then, and then they're just all in.
Speaker 4:Wow, yeah, I'd say you can expedite the growth in your life by getting around high caliber guys. But when I started to look around, when I started feeling the stirring in my spirit, I wasn't a high caliber guy. So you often attract what you are and so as I grew, the group grew. As the group grows, I grow. It's very cyclical because I got people on the other side of this wall who need me to get this right and if I can show up better for them and leave a lasting impact on their life, man, this is worth it. But if I just pump fake people all day long and tell you how wonderful I am and they hate me, then I'm a fraud, you know, and then you get to end your life Well it's so empty.
Speaker 2:What do you mean by high caliber? What I mean?
Speaker 4:is like they don't settle for the crummy excuses. You know guys will say, man, I just I can't get up on time. What do you mean? You can't get up? Well, how old are you? Like my 11 year old, I'm waking him up for school. I, you shouldn't be waking up your 41 year old, right? Like well, I just can't, or I just don't, or I just I forgot, or I just like.
Speaker 4:There are people and I forgive me how this is going to sound but I've said to guys like how did you ever make a child? Like you can't figure out how to do basic downloadable PDFs or to follow through on a text message or to reply to an email how did? How did you ever make a kid? How did you ever get a job? And some guys just live in this acceptable incompetence their whole life because their wife will pick up their slack. Their kids don't even expect anything out of them anymore. Their boss knows that they're just going to do the minimum and I'm like that's a crap. And then all they're trying to do is die the safest, and that's a terrible way to live.
Speaker 2:Right oh man Expectation right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the limiting, I mean the limiting beliefs and the limiting factor of that, like you said, I mean living in that sort of complacency, that complacent incompetence and just you know, lie under the radar. I mean what a waste of time and energy and oxygen. You know life. I mean that. I mean honestly right, like imagine what the world would look like if you know the, the high caliber, you know men with intentionality and intensity and intimacy, were leading themselves and those in their sphere of influence With that type of intentionality and caliber man. The world would be a different place.
Speaker 4:I spent about 30 some years of just going through the motions Christian man, pastor, husband, father, whatever. I look back on that guy now and I punch him in the face Like there's a picture of me before my son was born. I'm like that guy doesn't have a clue. But I also look back and think what were you doing? Like? What did you spend your time doing? Like, where, where was your effort and energy? Like I can't even. It is literally like a switch has flipped. You can you can turn the light on in a dark room and you see what's there. You can turn it off and pretend like it's not all there, but it's still there. So once that switch is flipped, you're like there's no going back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Not that this even matters, but I'm just curious. Let me just preface it with that Do you have a sense of, or have you encountered, um, what? What have you encountered in the way of response from your message and what you're doing with the pursuit of manliness from other sort of Christian communities? Is it, is it embraced, Is it, is it welcomed or is it, you know? Is it, uh, not so much?
Speaker 4:No, I mean, hey, I'm good If you're talking like bigger names. No, they probably don't know I exist and that's okay. You guys talk about running it. I don't run ads. I ran one ad. I got much like crazies I said delete it, I'm done running that ad. So it's been very much of a mosaic. You know those who are there. It's one or two at a time. Whatever it's guys inviting, I think you know we're not for everybody, right, and so sometimes the way that I communicate or whatever, some people think you're being phony. I'm literally in my garage. Tomorrow I'll put that door up and I'll make a video of me looking out to the driveway about a thought for 59 seconds, like it's real simple and basic. But I think the key is just just stay in the course. You know, and like I commend you guys for doing this for three years, there's a lot of guys that don't do it past 12 months. I mean they don't even get that far down the road. So the fact that you're doing it shows where your heart really is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it matters. I mean we, we believe this, this, this message matters. It matters. I mean, we believe this message matters and God is, you know, raising up, you know, an army, an army of soldiers. You know in his army, right For a time such as this, and I think it's an important time, and you know a critical point in history and you know it's as you look back, you know as we look back right to our former selves.
Speaker 2:You know the sad part is like, you know, I would guess you know you didn't know, you didn't know what you didn't know right, and I didn't either. Right, it took, it took. You know me, you know reaching out to somebody saying like man, I don't, I don't think this is all I'm supposed to be. You know like there's a and you know somebody, and then I got connected to Mark and he ignored my, my phone calls and email for about three months before he finally responded and then things got under way. I deny that, but, but, but you know, like the truth, you know the the message does have to get out, you know, because guys don't know, you know that they don't know, they're just living the life that they think they should be living, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm just want to grab that Sarge because I was thinking about what, what Jared said a little bit ago about the retreats and the guy gets out of the car and he's like I'm nervous about doing this and I'm reminded and we've all read John Eldredge, right, we love Wild at Heart and our brother Chris Bruno. Both were saying that men continue, adult men, good men, christian men, are asking themselves do I have what it takes? Right that question, do I have what it takes? Do I have what it takes? How many men over the years have we all met that are still asking themselves.
Speaker 1:Now, we've been that event that Sarge was lovingly referring to Jared about showing up at my door and my ignoring him is mostly true. It happened about 19, 20 years ago and I had a men's group meeting in my basement which met here for 18 years Every other Thursday, called the Band of Brothers. Shocking, it came out around the time that the Band of Brothers came out. But watch, I look back and that just ended this past June. I look back and say almost to a man they stop and show up, just nervous wrecks, and they're asking that key question Do I have what it takes? Have you seen this manifest itself in the herd and in the tribe in your retreats.
Speaker 4:All the time, all the time, you know. First of all say, if guys get in tribe and they think they're awesome, they're not usually long for tribe because we don't think you're awesome, because we don't care, we got, we got our stuff to worry about. Right, I got my own junk, but I found, like, when guys are just real and I use the term blue collar I grew up in a blue collar home and I mean you, just you answer the bell every day, you go to work, you pay your bills, you mow your grass, you love your whatever. That's all. We're not, we're just doing that. But what we found is even online and even in men's groups, you can still pump fake people and you can tell them it's all good when it's not good.
Speaker 4:And I'll never forget a guy who had been into my house, his wife had been here, he'd been in tribe and he's a good man, he's a really good guy and he's a hoorah guy and he's a, he's a. He had all the phrases. And one day I got a text from him that he was an alcoholic and his wife was leaving him. I said what the heck I'm like. This can't be the guy that you know. I'm like. I'm looking at the name and yeah, yeah, he still got up and did his Bible time and he still did all the challenge videos. He still did all the things. And it wasn't until he really got honest with his bride and with his tribe and with did bride and with his tribe and with did things really start to shift, because I can tell you what you want to hear.
Speaker 4:You know, it dawned on me one day while I was preaching. My kids are now all in big church and they're like is he going to use me as an illustration and is that really who he is? You know what I'm saying. So if I stand there and I'm one thing and I go home, I'm something different. I was telling you guys before we started it's just so much easier to be the same guy at every spot. If you ran into me at the grocery store or picking up my kid at Taco Bell here in a minute or whatever, it's the same guy. And I don't play on you being impressed. Ever, you know I've had guys show up and go. Oh, I thought you were taller, I thought you were based on what Like who cares, your voice sounds taller.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, you know. And someone said who takes your pictures? Me, I don't know, but the point is man just being real, just being authentic. You're not going to be for everybody, but you're going to help somebody and our goal should be all three of our goals should be help as many people get to heaven as possible.
Speaker 2:Amen, amen, brother, amen, oh man, I love it, sure brother, Amen oh man.
Speaker 1:I love it. Sure do, sure do. Can we talk about heart change for a minute, sarge? Yeah, so all of us have invested in leading other men to Jesus right, and we've done our time and continue to, and it's a joy, an absolute joy. We do it with folks, I do it with men that are close to me that I consider dear friends, like Sarge, and I do it with complete strangers that I often see for 44 hours and then I never see again or talk to again. So it runs the gamut and in every case when we're leading, we realize that we.
Speaker 1:I spend a lot of time in my head, I'm going through my checklist, I'm doing things that don't involve a lot of depth and I'm learning to teach men. I haven't mastered this, but I realize how important heart change is in a man To really help that man find that path that God wants them to be on. Can you just, jared, grab that, because I heard you use those words in a podcast earlier today. As I said to you before we started, what does heart change mean to you?
Speaker 4:Well, it means that it's like your savings account. It's one of those things that nobody can see, but when you need it, you need to pull from it. And I remember many years ago I was on staff at a church. It was really stressful and someone from another place came to talk to all of us. He was a pastor and he would meet with us individually and I remember one time he was asking about ministry and things that was going, and I said you know whatever I said, but he stopped me. He said but how's your heart? And then he quoted Proverbs 4, 23, above all, I'll guard your heart from its wellsprings of life. And I was like dang, I don't think anyone's ever asked me that before, and so I had to think about it. You know, whatever, but I'll fast forward years down the road I find out this guy's out of ministry. He had a moral failure and I thought nobody ever asked him how his heart was. He's going around checking on people and doing that with good intentions. It was nothing malicious, but nobody ever checked on him. So you're going to have to have some people who have the right to tell you the truth, who have the right to tell you what's going on.
Speaker 4:I believe that all three of us that were married our wives need to know who they could call if we're not right. I asked my wife, like do you know who you could call if I get in a funk, because I can be a miserable person to be around? She named a few people. Absolutely, those are the people. She needs, people in her life as well.
Speaker 4:So you got to have those people who are not your fans. They're not bobbleheads, they're your guys, they're for you and they're with you, but they're also not going to take your guff either. They're also going to say come on, man, you're better than that Like, or what's going on? Or man, I'm sick of hearing you talk like that or whatever, because it was at Hebrews 12. See to it that no root of bitterness springs up. And then what happens? It affects a lot of people. So if we don't guard our heart, we're doomed. And so you can listen to all the podcasts and you can buy all the gear and you can do all the things, but if your heart's a mess, the whole thing will unravel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Amen to that. And especially, you're bringing up the relationship we have with our spouses and that love and what they see in us and being real, you know, having a real life relationship at home. Right, it's the beginning of everything. I think it's the foundation of everything we're talking about. Why don't I'm not a psychologist, I'm not a counselor, I'm not a pastor or, you know, don't have any theological training, but it's not hard to figure out that. I think a great first step for men and we always talk about something practical here, Sarge is getting real with the person you love the most next to Jesus, right With your wife. And if you're not married, there's beginning there and then your kids see that and see how you treat someone you love, that you have a real relationship with. It's a game changer, can change everything.
Speaker 4:My father-in-law was a pastor for 40 years in our home church one of the godliest men I've ever run up on and I remember the week or two after he retired from our home church he was at my house in Iowa sitting in my basement and he was having an identity crisis. I couldn't believe what I was seeing because he was such a man in confidence and he's like a mob boss for Jesus, and I remember telling him it was a Holy Spirit moment because I don't know where it came from. But I thought there's two things that will go with you the whole time you're here on this earth One, your relationship with Christ and, if you're married, your bride. That's the goal. Those two things. So no matter where you park your car or any of those things, never get your identity from something that could be taken away from you.
Speaker 4:And I watched this guy for the next 10 years of his life serving different capacities. He moved whatever. She went with him and so if you get your relationship with Jesus right and you're married, you get it right with your bride. Everything else is where it needs to be. You get your bride wrong. The whole thing is going to, no matter what award you get or accolade. It's just not going to be right. You got to get that marriage right. You got to protect your home, get your camp right, and then everything else will take care of itself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, amen, amen, I've, I've one curve ball I want to throw at you ball I want to throw at you and I know, yeah, I don't think it'll be that much of a curveball for you, but you know a lot of what you're talking about is you challenge these men and and men are challenging each other and the tribe, you know, can could easily be heard or or interpreted as sort of just behavior modification, right, and so, like, how do you guys sort of manage that tension between behavior modification and, you know, you know, life impacting heart change?
Speaker 4:Well, I think that comes through some of the conversation. You know, I think sometimes the challenge, like for Christmas, one of the challenges would be to write a handwritten letter, to like I write it to my wife and my three kids. You know, okay, that sounds like there's some guys that are like never going to do that. That's fine, never do that. But you're missing out on what the other guys are. Or when you share that sin or you talk about, what happens is that challenge is presented in front of them. Guys don't have to do it, they can ignore it. Same way as zoom calls.
Speaker 4:We're studying the book of Jude tonight, 80 guys will be like, nope, not doing that Can't make time, have to put the kids to bed, whatever, you can do that. But what again? We always tell them if you engage you'll grow. And then we start to get You're going to sign back up for that thing, right? Or we had a guy who had a rough day at church. He didn't go in, he was sitting in the car, he was depressed and when his wife came back out to the car the first thing she said was did you reach out to the guys in tribe? Because she knows there is a group of guys who will start to circle up and pray for him, no matter the time of day or whatever, and so you start to hear those things.
Speaker 4:Now there are guys again who just sign up and they don't do anything with it. There's no secret sauce to this. There's no secret sauce to anything we're talking about. That simply put just get in the word. You never have to sign up for a tribe, a retreat, nothing. Just get in the word, get in community. The Holy Spirit will take care of the rest.
Speaker 2:Amen, amen. Well said, brother. Could you agree more Well said.
Speaker 1:So, uh Jar, we like to end usually by giving our guests a minute to talk about whatever God puts on their heart, whatever you'd like our two listeners to hear.
Speaker 4:We're happy to give you an opportunity, like many, to just share your heart for God and what is next for you, what your kind of vision and what's happening in Jarrett's life. Well, let me say this to your two listeners If there are two listeners and they're not related to you guys and won't be at your Thanksgiving table, it would be nice if, every once in a while, they would reach out and say how much they appreciate what you guys do. Man, every once in a while, I hear from somebody out of nowhere. This guy was on USS, I don't know where in Japan one time and sent me an email. Man it made my day. Or a young man who's thinking he's never going to get married. Or every once in a while, you get one of those messages and you're like that's why we do this. We always talk about the one. It's nice to meet the one every once in a while. Here's the thing we just came out of an election cycle and whether you're red or blue, I don't know and I don't care. I know where I'm at, but anyhow, people that supported Donald Trump, for example, they would say well, they're afraid to say it because they're going to get ridiculed, they're going to be called names whatever, and I think that's true. I think there was a lot of name calling.
Speaker 4:I think Christians are in the same camp. I think a lot of times, christians don't want to be perceived as being, you know, men. We don't want to be misogynistic. We don't want to be about the patriarchy we don't want to be about. Be about it, just be about it. Okay, be about the things that God is about and he'll take care of it. Be about the things God is about and he'll provide you the opportunities. He'll set the tone. He'll create that divine appointment He'll change the tone of is about.
Speaker 4:We have too many men for far too long have been mute. We don't need any more mute men. We're full. If you're two listeners or mute men wanting to be Christian, we're full. We can't take any more. We need guys who, like Jonathan, his armor bearer, say I'm with you, heart and soul. Man, let's go. If I got to take some hits for you, I'm willing to take some hits and you'll know that's real when you go through some stuff. Some guys go through a storm and they fold. Some guys go through a storm and they come out stronger. You'll know who those guys are, but we're done. The times of being mute, putting our head in the sand, hoping the world just plays nice, that's over. We can't do that, no more.
Speaker 2:I love it, brother, amen, thank you for that. Thank you for that. It's well said, it needs to be heard and it encourages me.
Speaker 4:So it gets me fired up, let's go. That was more than a minute. I apologize, you're entitled, you can have it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, this is great, Really great, to have you in the foxhole. Jared, we are blessed to know you and have met you. Uh, that you continue to be blessed as you expand the tribe, your tribes. I know you got a retreat coming up, some other things that you're doing. We just asked that God's hand would be in everything that you're doing. Uh, it's so, so awesome to know you're there and we are here. Sarge is down in in Florida, I'm in Jersey, you're in Iowa.
Speaker 4:I wish I'm in Indianapolis. I'm from Iowa. I grieve that. Thank you for that. You said Iowa, sorry. That was like a little God's country and central time zone. You can't get any better than that, and I don't. I don't have either one of them.
Speaker 2:I love it. That's great man. We love having you. It was so good to have you on and for our listeners. Go to the. Go to pursuit of manlinesscom, check out Jared's ministry, check out the tribe. If you're a man that just doesn't know where to plug in and you have no idea, and let me tell you, there's a million options right where you are, I guarantee it. But if you have no idea, go to pursuit of manlinesscom, check out the tribe and uh, and get plugged in with them. Guys gathering on Zoom calls and you know, follow the plan, jump in for six months, see what God will do with that and jump in head first. I'd strongly encourage that. And we believe in what you're doing, jared, we believe in the ministry and really what God is doing through you and through the ministry. So thank you, thanks for what you do, thanks for being with us, and God bless your journey, bro. Thank you, man, I appreciate it.
Speaker 3:Another beautiful example of a brother serving the men around him by developing a community where men sharpen each other and drive toward authentic relationships. It was refreshing to hear Jared's no-nonsense approach to all that he does. It was refreshing to hear Jared's no-nonsense approach to all that he does. He is pursuing what God put on his heart with passion and, whether it helps one man or a million, he's right where he's supposed to be. Where are you plugged in? Where's your authentic community and how are you getting sharpened? Lord, please continue to use this podcast to impact the lives of all who listen. I ask that you would bring hope and healing to each and every one of them, meet them right where they are and reveal yourself to them like only you can do.
Speaker 2:In Jesus' name, amen. If you enjoyed today's episode, please share it and invite others to the Foxhole. You can find us wherever you download your favorite podcasts Amen, Foxhole Symphony or visit foxholesymphonycom to make it super easy to find us. Drop us a line with feedback, questions, topic requests. Who knows, Maybe you'll be a guest on a future episode. In the meantime, prepare to move, embrace discomfort and just be you.
