Foxhole Symphony
Foxhole Symphony
Life Beyond Material Success with Guest Brett Snodgrass
When Brett Snodgrass stepped away from the intoxicating rush of real estate success, he stumbled into a life-altering realization that wealth couldn't fill the void in his soul. Our latest episode sweeps you into Brett's extraordinary transformation and the profound truth he now lives by—that true worth and purpose are found in faith and authentic community. In this deeply profound discussion, we address the profound question of what it means to build a kingdom not of mortar and riches, but of spirit and purpose, and how our personal journeys are part of a much grander divine blueprint.
Navigating life's ambitions and seeking fulfillment, we often find ourselves at crossroads where the material meets the spiritual. This conversation peels back the layers on why the drive for success, while exhilarating, can lead us astray from the path of significance that deeply resonates with our soul. Through laughter, shared stories, and a dose of candid vulnerability, we dissect the shifts in perspective that reframe our quests—from self-serving achievements to nurturing legacies that ripple through time and touch lives.
Our episode culminates in a poignant reflection on the essence of abundance and the richness that comes from a place of spiritual depth. Whether you're weathering storms of adversity or basking in the glow of accomplishment, we invite you to find your 'foxhole,' that sacred space for growth where the divine meets the earthly. In a world that measures success in likes, promotions, and bank balances, join us for a heartfelt exploration of what it really means to be fulfilled—a journey that starts with a simple, yet daring step toward the eternal.
Check out Brett's ministry, Iron Deep!
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Welcome to Foxhole Symphony, a podcast about the transformational value of men in authentic community.
Speaker 2:And our Foxhole men are equipped to build relationships that foster belonging, accountability and growth.
Speaker 1:Stop believing the lie that you can thrive in isolation and instead join us on the journey for broken to whole.
Speaker 3:Hello everyone, they call me the maestro and we are back in the Foxhole where we actively pursue belonging, accountability and growth through authentic relationships. No masks, no agendas, just iron, sharpening iron. Today, steve and Mark are back in the Foxhole, each with a box of tissues and plenty of cough drops. They're not letting a cold slow them down, so pop a few immunity gummies and get your favorite notes app open. Here we go.
Speaker 2:Hey, welcome back to Foxhole Symphony podcast. I'm Sarge here with my good friend and co-host, mark. Hey, bro, good to be back with you. You too, I promise not to cough. Yeah, we've been under the weather for a little while.
Speaker 1:It's, you'd never know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Well, you would know, and listeners may know, that they're going to hear it soon enough. So what?
Speaker 1:are these guys sound like?
Speaker 2:We're not going to edit out 6,000 of those, but we're going to do our best to hold the sniffles to a limit, and particularly because we've got a guest that we're really excited about today from the Midwest, who just got over being sick as well. So it could just be a cacophony of sniffles and throat clearings, but again, we're going to do our best.
Speaker 1:They're all very manly things, though. You noticed that Well yeah, that's true Exactly.
Speaker 2:How do you like that for a segue?
Speaker 1:Yeah, good yeah that's good, just working it hard to the manly stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a manly.
Speaker 4:You guys want me to take my shirt off?
Speaker 1:No, Well yes, you can do that. You can do that you can use it for a bandana if you want to. No one's going to see you.
Speaker 2:It's not that type of show yeah, exactly it could be. Now we know a little something about Brett's retreats, so if you want to know anything about the iron deep retreats you just heard that we rolled- Thanks guys for having me on.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I want to do this joke. Hey, since we both all been sick, we might play a nice little sniffle symphony. Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, that was good, that was good, that was good. You did the sympho yeah exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and my nose whistled.
Speaker 2:So there we go. We're already making music. Perfect, we're off to a great start.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2:Brett, welcome to Into the Fox.
Speaker 1:So we're really glad to have you.
Speaker 4:No, thank you. Thanks, sarge, thanks Mark, appreciate you being here. You guys are awesome. Man, it's just going to be fun.
Speaker 1:It is, so let's start. Could you just start us off by telling our listeners a little about yourself?
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, no problem. So I'm Brett Snodgrass. I'm 43 years old. I live in Fort Wayne, indiana, midwest guy. I was a basketball player growing up. My dad was a high school basketball coach, so that was a huge part of our life. Have you ever seen the movie Hoosiers?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, there you go.
Speaker 4:That was the Snodgrass house you know for 23 years of my life. Really it was.
Speaker 1:I just started with old movies. We'll go Hoosiers all day I can do dialogue from that movie.
Speaker 4:That's right. My dad he was Norman Dale, I was Jimmy Chitwood. So I am married to my beautiful wife Karen. We have four children and my career for the past 17 plus years has been real estate. So I am the house flipper favorite watch HGTV? I do. I do a lot of that. I do house houses and we do rental properties. So I got a small team here in Indianapolis, Indiana. That's our market. That's a little bit about me. I'm a Christian man, Love the Lord. I gave my life to Christ when I was 30. I'm 43 now, so that was 13 years ago. It's been a good ride. He's been good to me, so appreciate being here Awesome.
Speaker 2:That's great, that is so cool, so obviously very accomplished in the real estate world, both personally as well as coaching others. We know that you've spent a lot of time teaching others how to develop real estate and build passive income through that as well, and I'm sure there's lots of podcasts and I know you've done lots of podcasts on that topic. But what we're most interested in is your heart, of course, and what God has been doing over these last 13 years, and a little bit about your foxholes. I mean, tell us a little bit about Iron Deep and then we can maybe fill some gaps. We'd love to hear more about your story and how God has brought you here.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah. So again, I gave my life to Christ 13 years ago, got married just a couple of years after that. And let's fast forward. I've been around the real estate space for longer than 17, 18 years. I've been around a lot of accomplished people, guys that have chased success and chased wealth. These are conversations that in my mastermind groups in the real estate space I've been around. I've been in a lot of networking groups, done a lot of podcasts, interviewed a lot of real estate guys and typically we're all trying to live this life of financial freedom I mean, really that's what it is and we're using real estate as the vehicle to do that. So I've been around that.
Speaker 4:I've listened to a lot of the messages, I've followed a lot of those principles in the books and I love business and I love building things and creating things and I love real estate. It's been an amazing vehicle for my life, for freedom. But, on the other hand, there's been a dark side to some of that. There's a dark side to leadership in some of these men's lives. I've been around groups where very accomplished, successful men might have a private thing going on in their life, this struggle that they never talk about, this secret war within, which did write a book on that as well. And I was at a mastermind group one time and a guy had just had a divorce in his life and was going through a very dark time in his personal life. I remember he's saying this. He said there's no amount of public success that can ever replace private failure. So that's something that stuck with me, because I've been through some of the valleys of private.
Speaker 4:I have a child Actually I had mentioned, but out of wedlock had her when I was about 27,. She's 16, almost 17 years old now. My wife and I have three kids together with her, so we have four total. So anyways, I heard that particular message and just talking to other men, really God just kind of leaning on my heart with these business guys. And how do we do business well, how do we lead well, how do we be men that are leaders, that are known and that are successful? How do we do that well together and to live on mission and what's God calling us to?
Speaker 4:Really, that's where IRD was born. It says organization for business guys. We get together and we sharpen each other like iron sharpens iron. We go deep in relationship with him and each other where the deep part comes in, and that was launched about a year ago and I've loved it. It's been awesome. I think it's been a need for the guys that have been to some of our events and that's where I see my life, my life's mission heading, which really pouring into these guys that are successful that don't have a space that they can be real in many circumstances.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I love it Really. There's so many nuggets in there. Let me start Sure, Thank you for that. Really that's helpful. Have not read your whole book, but read Just Enough to Be Dangerous the Allegory and Nolan and just I want to. First you kind of slid it in there, but Brett has written a book called the Secret War Within an Allegory by Brett Stagras.
Speaker 1:So we're happy to promote that with you and for you. I'm really curious. Noting the common denominators, I want to kind of throw something out there. I don't think we have to spend a lot of time on it, and the business part of what you've described is something all men have in common. The 99.9% of us have a job. We have the business struggle, whatever it is, whatever you do, whether you're an actuary and have no stress whatsoever, or you're a sales guy like me who gets paid on compensation and have inherent stress for 50 years in your life. But we have this business foundation common denominator. The part that I think differs for all men is the level of depth. You use the word deeper several times in just your opening comments. The book talks about deeper, the foxhole, right and victorious together, belonging, accountability, growth. We seek depth right and with it the inherent risks that come with it. So I'm going to go back to your character in your book, nolan. Who does Nolan represent, if you don't mind me asking, because I know there's a connection there.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's probably where where I went the allegory route instead of maybe the nonfiction routes. Nolan has a lot of experiences of. Like myself, was able to write a story with a lot of my own personality, and Nolan has lived through some of my life. He's a real estate developer, very, you know, has reached a stage in his life of success, so a lot of myself. But the cool thing about the allegory was he is not me and I really had to come to grips with that.
Speaker 4:Even you know, when I was talking to my, my writing mentor that helped go through this, they had to constantly tell me that Nolan is not you, right, he's going to, he's going to be his own character, he's going to do different things than you do. So not everything that that Nolan does in this particular book is something that I've, that I've done. It's funny that even people that have been closest to me, like my father my dad as soon as he wrote the book, people assume oh, nolan is you, I didn't know that you did that, or I didn't know that I did that to you because there's a father in the particular book and I was like you know what? That Nolan's not me and you're not the father, right. So I had to really, you know point, point that out. But really Nolan is, you know, really the avatar of, of a man that has a lot of the characteristics to myself, a lot of my listeners is a driven man. He wants to win, which I think all men do, right, we all love to win, we all want to succeed, and not only to succeed to be recognized for that. We all want to be remembered, you know, at some level.
Speaker 4:And Nolan wants to do that and he has placed most of his life in that chasing after that, his efforts, his resources to reach success and to be known for it. But maybe he's misplaced a lot of that. He's put everything that he has into that and then he reaches this point where he realizes which many men do what is all that for no-transcript, what does it mean? It doesn't give me the level of satisfaction that it once did when I was 29.
Speaker 4:And he's wrestling with through some of these questions and he has some of these secrets within which many men do. And he talked about the level of depth that no one would never talk about, these certain things going on in his life that he's trying to hide, he doesn't want anyone to know. But the cool thing about the allegory is that we get to see it and we get to see no one going through these things and struggling through these things and I think that's really why it resonates with men is, if we get to really pull back the curtain in his life, you're like oh my gosh. Like you know, I struggle with some of those things and no one knows what I do either, except for this book right, Right and thank you, just go ahead finish.
Speaker 4:No, I would just say and I think that's where I think the rubber hits the road is that it really reveals some of the secrets within a man's heart, that they get to see someone really struggling with it. I think after they read it you're like well, how did they know? And maybe now it's okay for me to talk about this stuff too. There you go, which is really what Iron Deep comes in with. What you guys are doing comes in. It's like you know, men need to have a space to talk about these things, that I'm struggling with it, but I want to grow, I want to have breakthroughs through these different things, and that's really why the book was written.
Speaker 1:So I love it and thank you. I had no preconceived notion about when I asked her who it represents, because I don't know you well enough, so I didn't stick your face into that role. But the notes in the back of your book talk about going men who want to go beyond success, and so let's kudos for the success In 43 years. Right, you've reached I think you almost said the word pinnacle, and that's fine that. You've reached a stage where you want to pivot to where it isn't about height anymore. Right, it isn't about growing your fortune necessarily, although we all kind of like to continue to grow our fortune.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's fun, right, it's fun to play games. I mean, men love to play games, right, and it's just like it's all at the end of the day they're raising the fortune, and it's just kind of a game at the end of the day and we like it.
Speaker 2:We like it. It's fun, fun to win.
Speaker 1:And so then the book talks about and you've talked about living out your most fulfilled life, and I'm really curious for you let's put the book just in the bullpen for a second what just describe that? What is living your most fulfilled life? Or, for the men in your experience in your weekends that you're doing with Iron Deep, what does that look?
Speaker 4:like, yeah, what's it mean to you? Yeah, well, number one, I think for me, and I think for most men, the thing that they're searching for and the way we were designed which, again, really the book pinpoints on that the allegory characters that Nolan meets as God and Christ and the Holy Spirit, and we were designed to be in relationship with our designer. So I think for me, and the way what I always talk about with Iron Deep from that perspective and that biblical worldview, is that it starts with that relationship with our creator, with our father, and what does that look like? And how do you do life with him? Like what is? And that's what Nolan is missing.
Speaker 4:And I think that a many men, even as Christians, are non-Christians, but even as Christian men, they said, okay, I've given my life to Christ, but how do I do life like that? I know the boxes I need to check, but how do you walk in intimacy with him? And these are questions that I'm always asking even myself what does that look like? So I think it starts there. And then God designed these amazing things in our life that sometimes we corrupt, but for me, he's given me the blessings of to be in relationships with people and in this family unit that he's blessed me with. What does that look like? How do I do that? Well, how do I lead that? Well, with the family unit, design.
Speaker 4:So just digging into that and going deeper with the vision that he created for family. So that's something always digging into. And then for me again it goes back to how was I designed, how was I uniquely designed, and what do I do with that? Like, what talent did he give me? Or what treasure did he give me and what do I do with that? What is he calling me to and how can I use that for his glory? So those are some of the things that that we can go through, some other different things of living that fulfilled life. But it's really, how do I build intimacy with him? How do I build intimacy and depth with other people, starting with my family and then from there, what does he call me to, what does he wanted me to do with my design? I think, at the end of the day, and when he can figure that out, that's fulfillment.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah. And then it's like and then there's everything else, right, because and I think you know to put maybe different words to what you're saying that really resonate, words that we use all the time, right, and it's it's, you know, it's, it's it's who am I and who am I really right? Who am I in Christ? Right, what's my identity? Number one, number two, you know what. What roles has God placed me in? Right and so, and how does who I am, you know, impact those roles, right and relationships? And then, lastly, why am I here, right, how does God want me to use it? What's my mission? Why has God given me breath, right, uniquely, to help build his kingdom and join him at work.
Speaker 2:And I think you hit the nail on the head, you know, if you have clarity on those three things, the fulfilled life is not not far away, right, I mean it is. Then, then you, you're, you're just, you know you're, you're just floating in the rivers of his grace and mercy and direction. And all of a sudden, you know it's not about building our kingdom anymore, right, and so you know, as it goes back to success, you know, we just had a guest on Chris Bruno around in Colorado, phenomenal counselor and author wrote an incredible book. I've read his books. Have you read the yeah Sage?
Speaker 4:I don't know if you've read Sage. I mean, I read the man maker, yep, sage is a book.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he the second season, yep, and so we're touching on a lot of that right, like what happens, you know, the the first half of life and now the second half of life, which which you, you know you're approaching and I'm, I'm, I'm in and Mark. Mark Mark's well into him.
Speaker 4:He's, he's, he's very old.
Speaker 2:He's very old, very elderly here.
Speaker 4:Why are you so old yeah?
Speaker 2:I mean wise. I mean wise he's a wise cracker for sure, so. But you know, that's that's what we're touching on, right, like that, those things that are important to us and those stages that we go through in that first half of life, only to find, wow, none of this is really fulfilling, right, it's stuff that God allows us to do, that God invites us into, but it's not really what it's all about, right? And then it's looking back, reflecting on all of that and saying, okay, now, how does that inform you, know, and really, the roles God's placed me in now, and how might he use it all for his own glory, right?
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, and I think it just goes back to again. I think the the one of the big themes of the book even was is what you touched on, sarge, is what kingdom are you building? Like we're all building a kingdom, we're all we all desire to build a kingdom, and is it your kingdom or not? Your? And the one guy told me that one time he's like there's basically there's two different kingdoms there's God's kingdom and then not God's kingdom. Which one are you going to build? Yeah, and and I think, yeah, we just reached this point where you know I want to build, I want to build God's kingdom, but that, but my flesh struggles with that, just like Paul, he shows that right.
Speaker 4:Where, where you want to be known still and you want to be liked and and and and you know people to know certain things, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's, that's just it, right, it's. It's those things that we, we want or even there I say need, in order to think we'll receive fulfillment. But they're dry wells, right, they never leave fulfillment. It's, you know how much affirmation is enough. You know how much money is enough, how, how much filling the blank is really enough? Who can answer that? You know, I love asking that question to men. You know, whatever it is they need, well, okay, how much will be enough that you can? Then, you know, stop building your backup plan or your own kingdom or chasing after this.
Speaker 2:You know, going back to this dry well, like a dog returns to his vomit, right Versus, what does it look like to find healing for whatever it is that's causing that need to bubble up day in and day out so that we can move on, and that's no longer the need. Right, still still might feel good, but it's no longer the need driving us right to build whatever it is. We're building to get the Atta boy or to get the check, or to get the right, the XYZ versus. It's no longer about me and my needs. In fact, psalm 23 I have all that I need, right from the shepherd, and you know now what is it you need, lord? What is it you want, and how can I be used by you? Right, and speak, being that vessel no longer driven by our own, our own needs, right?
Speaker 4:yeah, no, I love that. I'm going through a series right now and you guys have probably heard of experiencing experiencing God. Yes, we know it well absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:We Mark and I we just talked about that actually our recent, a recent episode, yeah, and yeah you know we're touching on how how much that study shaped our, our journey 15 years ago or so, 20, 20 years ago what are you learning?
Speaker 4:there right, yeah, I mean, I think that the thing that touched on that I've been like hitting out more is many times we want God to partner with us.
Speaker 4:Yeah, with yeah with what we're doing, like, god bless this, because this is what I want to do, so can you bless it, whether it's a business or family or whatever it is, instead of asking the question, god, what do you want? Because I want to partner with what you're doing. Yeah, something that I've been talking about, you know. I've been talking about thinking about, praying through, reflecting on, and we can just get in into that trap and it's funny how, like, even when we start something like an iron deep, for example, god, you're gonna call me, you're calling me to this, this is the direction. We take our time and we listen, and and then we do it, and we do it a good event, or a couple of events, and then people start praising you for doing it, mm-hmm.
Speaker 4:And then your perspective goes. It just starts to shift, even because your flesh starts to bubble up.
Speaker 3:To me, like oh yeah, I know, I am good, you know yeah, exactly, and he had to constantly remind and pray through that.
Speaker 4:And no, I'm partnering with what? With what you're doing? What else do you want to do? I don't know, you know. So, anyways, these are some of the things I'm. I'm going through even as, as you know, just through life, with, with, with iron deep, with the book, anything like you know, even the book, right, you get one, you don't. You have no idea how this is gonna turn out. You put you bear your soul into it in your closet for six months or a year and no idea how people are gonna respond. And then you get a couple of positive responses and like, okay, I got this, you know?
Speaker 4:yeah, that's go so not an interesting right.
Speaker 1:We have peeled the onion back so far on experiencing God. That I I've said this before on the air. I don't have a problem seeing it again the the knowing part. For me, the toughest part about inviting God into my stuff is is myself and men that we've experienced together in this work that we do for God, where they, where we. I give thanks to God for things that I've invited him to.
Speaker 1:After I'm already done, I make sure I achieve my goal and I'm like oh, thank you, lord, and you know hallelujah and it's the most disingenuous crap that, and I don't do it anymore, but it is one of those things that we find that men are really good at, is, you know, thanking God after the fact and if you're going to build your identity in Christ, then the only way to do it is to start with it. My my friend, here sitting next to me is is in a process now where you know I'm watching him grow through constantly, all day, every hour, asking God what do you want for me, what do you expect of?
Speaker 1:me where do you need me? What should I be doing? Where should I fight? What? What's next for me? And that's a question that has a lot of risk for men, yeah, so as we go deep whether you're iron deep or you're in a foxhole or wherever the other men are gathered our barn brothers and band of brothers and everybody else out there we're asking these hard questions. This, this is why we do this. It's not the. We're not at 30 thousand feet, we're about four feet, you know, and and we're taking, we're asking tough questions, risky questions, with men that have a heart to do that and say, yeah, it's worth it and it's worth it.
Speaker 4:Can I ask, can I ask you guys a quick question? Sure, just on that and not to take us down a rabbit hole. But another thing is, I've, I've been, I've listened to, I even been a part of some non-faith groups, where again they're, they're seeking the same things, purpose meaning yeah, they want to be good dads, they want to be good men, but they just take God out of it, right, sure, at the end of the day. But they also have to have the formula. And so I want to ask you guys the formula to fulfill it. A lot of that, a lot of them come with with, with the formula. Do this stack the habits? Yeah, right, grateful, the journal, journal, great things, sure, what do you guys? What do you guys think about that?
Speaker 2:yeah, throw it all in the trash, not not to be crass, not to be not to be crass. But I just like you know, when you talked about intimacy with God, right, like there's no formula, I don't believe for intimacy with God and I'm not, I'm not pooping spiritual disciplines. I am a big believer in spiritual, we are big believers in this, in spiritual disciplines.
Speaker 2:I'm a big believer in, in rest and retreat, in embracing solitude, which is something I've been learning to do this year, and God has stretched me to the end of myself in that and and blessed it, you know, in in prayer, in devotion, in, in, in Bible reading, all of these things very, very important. The danger in the formula is checking the boxes, because God is so much more, so much more interested, I believe, in our approach of him, or, you know, in our pursuit of him, in our act of surrender, than our behavior. And so, yeah, and and I think it is drastically different for every one of us how and when God is going to meet us, based on all of that right, based on our relationship with him, our communion with him, are the circumstances of our lives, and how and when we decide to invite him into those right. It is just so different for each of us. And so I, I really push against the formulas.
Speaker 2:I really do, and I think, unfortunately, all of those men desiring to be good dads, desiring to be great husbands, praise God, mm-hmm. But what happens when the crap hits the fan? Mm-hmm, that that's the million dollar question, because it will, and I'm so much more, which is why I'm so much more interested in a man's suffering and and and failures and trauma than I am his successes, right, because it's in there, it's in his suffering, where God usually shows up, right? I mean, that's when, that's when it's like yo baby, this is gonna be good everybody's. Everybody sit back and watch what.
Speaker 1:God's gonna do right yeah, right you know and versus you know.
Speaker 2:Oh, you gotta just XYZ right the advice circle. Well, you gotta just. Are you doing? Are you, are you doing this? Are you doing that? Are you doing that? You just need to get your act together. You just got to pull yourself up by your bootstrap. It has to be on your own strength and take God out of it. Who's gonna fix it? You have to right well do you want me?
Speaker 1:to get the hammer and duct tape, and we can show you this before, brent, when we talked to you. But we actually have a real hammer and a roll of duct tape here on the podcast desk because it reminds us don't fix, stop let we can't fix anybody right.
Speaker 1:It's God's job, right. So let's give. Let's give a shout out to two or three fundamental steps, for, as part of the formula that we hate, there are a couple of things that men need to do, that is, you need to be in the word. We all agree there's that yes you need to gather, need to belong in a group that will hold you accountable, check. I think you need to do those things and then everything else you can, I push back a little bit.
Speaker 2:No, no, I'm gonna okay, I'm gonna like no because here's the duct tape. I'm not suggesting that those things aren't critically important and valuable. But if I'm on a deserted island with no bible right and no people, if I'm, if I'm Tom Hanks and if I'm what's, what was his name?
Speaker 4:if I just have a yeah, cast away right.
Speaker 2:Can I find intimacy with God?
Speaker 1:sure, absolutely anything's possible with God absolutely you're bringing up in a totally unrealistic situation what do you mean?
Speaker 2:it happened. Man of community. We're here happening cast away, right, okay, no. I know we are, but here's why I'm pushing back.
Speaker 2:Here's why, truly in my heart of hearts, before this year, I and listen, we bang the drum of authentic community, community every day that you can't, that you can't do it alone, and I and I and I don't think you can thrive in isolation. However I'm, I've learned this year how deeply I could connect with God on my own, on my own, and so and I needed, I needed to, almost, you know I needed to, and that intimate personal relationship is what a sage, I think, learns I'm not saying you can't okay.
Speaker 1:So we're totally in agreement.
Speaker 3:We are aligned.
Speaker 1:There are for me. I'd like anyone listening to realize that we've agreed to just talk about what we've experienced. And what I've experienced is when I turned my face to the Bible six years ago and I started meeting in the band of brothers for reasons other than my own, my life chain, I mean, I'm all about togetherness, brotherhood.
Speaker 4:Iron deep is all about brotherhood coming together, worshiping God together, sharpening each other. But if that's the only thing you're doing and I think it just goes back to what is your heart posture If you're going to the brotherhood, to as a social circle, but your heart isn't changing and you're not on your own purposeful pursuit of that intimacy with God, then it's not gonna help, right? You know, when you came to the band of brothers, your heart posture sawed it for the right reasons. Some people even come to the iron deep. They just wanna come and hang out with guys, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:And you're not gonna change if you just come there and hang out with guys and they're like, oh yeah, this is cool, but they're not gonna go home and do it on their own Right. So I think it just comes back to the reasons, the meaning, the heart posture of it all, and so men can seek. You need both. Yeah, it just depends on that season of your life. Some men just need to get in their closet and pursue and spend time with their father, and that's what they need. Some men have been doing that and they need the community.
Speaker 2:Praise God that there's men that show up that just wanna be with other men. That's awesome. And you know what? Hopefully, they see the spirit of God in others, they see that the heart changed the transformation in other men and go well, wait a minute. Now you know I want that Right, right, and praise God, just keep coming, keep coming, keep coming, keep coming, keep coming right.
Speaker 4:And then hopefully you'll go home and get in your closet.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly, or come to the end of your self and open your word Right, hopefully.
Speaker 4:And I think the word, and I totally agree the word, reading the word, and in order to know him, you have to again listen, pray and but then know what he says. So you gotta study right. So I think it's all very, very important, but I think again is what's the motive behind it? Is it a box? Did that done, yep? Or is it? I want you, I need you, I wanna grow today in relationship with you, and is that the reason? So yeah, amen.
Speaker 2:You know it's interesting something about reading the word right, yesterday was in conversation with someone and I'm talking to them and I'm talking about, you know, this sort of season in my life that I've been in this year and just kind of recapping it and I'm just speaking from my heart and they looked at me and they're like you literally just recited Psalm 40. And I'm like really that's unbelievable. And he's like no, no, no, go read it. And I did. And I'm like, oh my gosh, right, why? Because the word gets planted in our hearts, right, gets planted in our hearts. And so, and what God did is not just through the reading of it, but the meditating on it, the spending. You know five weeks, you know, in solitude, spending two hours every morning, you know, just listening for God and reading the Psalms and listening and hearing from him, and you know getting clarity, gaining wisdom, understanding more of his character. And then all of a sudden, I'm reciting Psalms that I don't even know I'm reciting. I'm just talking about what's flowing out of my heart.
Speaker 1:Whoa, like only God only God can do that right and, by the way, anyone who's listening, if someone comes up to you and tells you the last few sentences you spoke have come out of the word dance right there, stop what you're doing and start dancing. Well, it did, it did. It did. It did bring me joy. You celebrate that right there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's not a common. You know, it's the thing in my life. Are you kidding me? How many people in my life have said oh, you just wow, you just quote it really Just walk around saying in the beginning oh yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2:But you know that's the yeah again, that intimacy with God, where that deep, deep, that iron, deep connection you know with the Father, where you know that's what's flowing out of our hearts.
Speaker 3:Wow, yeah, more of that more of that.
Speaker 1:So, Brett, while you're just thinking about this, sorry to have to tell you, when you told me that you sent the text and told me about that, I was so envious for a moment because we're finishing this one year Bible reading plan and it's read the Bible in a year. Well, guess where you are in the last two weeks Revelation.
Speaker 3:So I'm just quoting.
Speaker 2:Psalm 40 and I got bowls and serpents and pieces and Hang on. Hang on, just to toot your own horn, just goes to show how far we got.
Speaker 1:You're in.
Speaker 2:Revelation. I'm in the Psalms.
Speaker 1:So I'm thinking Psalm 40, I had to look it up. I was like damn my bathrobee where he is right now, because I don't understand a word of what John was talking about Halfway through the year, when I realized it was never gonna happen, I started talking about how it's not that important to check the box.
Speaker 2:I'm like, listen, it's presence over production. Okay, this is what Chris was gonna say.
Speaker 4:I need to check all 360 boxes you know me.
Speaker 1:Brett, I follow the rules. Brett, I'm gonna take a left turn In a few of the articles that you sent with your book. It talks about the Iron Deep Men, one of the principles we prioritize. I'm quoting we prioritize significance over success, even though we love success, and I said it with that effect because that's what I heard and I really would love for you to unpack that for us.
Speaker 4:Could you please? Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. So number one again, as I mentioned before, I've been in kind of the business world about men who love to produce and to create and to build, and I think that again comes from the way I was designed. I love that. I love to create and achieve, to accomplish and it didn't have to be monetarily either, it could be anything, any projects. I love to accomplish it, to achieve it, and I'm around a lot of men that love that. We love that arena to take something from nothing and to create something, whatever it is building a house, building a business, doing a podcast, whatever that is. Take something out of nothing and grit and do something with it. So we love that.
Speaker 4:Very driven types of men are at Iron Deep. So again, I think a lot of men can relate. We love to chase, we love to conquer, we love to win, and it could be money, it could be the girl, whatever Princess, you know, rescuing, I don't know. Whatever it is. We love to do that, but we prioritize significance over success and again, maybe it's you know you reach this point where you just start to ask these questions of why does it matter? So maybe God has designed us this way. We've reached a certain level. Maybe we have a platform, but at the end of the day, what are we going to do with it? Why does it matter? How is it going to be impactful? How is it going to bring him glory? What are we going to do with it?
Speaker 4:So many men, they accomplish these things, they chase these things, they reach them, but it's all for their self-glory, it's all so they can live life on their terms. Right, that's the word that we love to use. We love to. I want to build financial freedom so I can do whatever I want, whenever I want, with whomever I want, so I can live life on my terms. And even saying that sounds kind of like gross and disgusting, like it sounds very self-consuming and self-glorification.
Speaker 4:So, really, we come together at Iron Deep and we want to be significant, not really for our own terms, but we want to do it for his glory. How are we going to use the success, the platform, to impact people's lives for the kingdom? What does that even look like? And it goes back to again our assignment, our mission. What are we going to do together to bring that? So that's where we talk a lot about that we talk a lot about identity. The book is a lot about identity because we misplace our identities into typically what we do as men and forget who said it. But it was said that we're the first culture in history that men completely define themselves by their careers. We completely define ourselves. There was a guy named Jeremy Pryor that he wrote a book I think it's called the Family Revision, and he said this this is the only time in history that a man can be successful at business, leave his family in ruins and still be considered a good man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, amazing, right, amazing.
Speaker 4:Just stuff like that. Yeah, that should frighten us right.
Speaker 2:I mean that should frighten us that's earth shattering stuff.
Speaker 4:So I think one of the things we talk about identity is we can still do these things, like I'm still a real estate investor, I still love to build and create, and I don't have to go completely somewhere else and do something completely different. But that's just what I do sometimes. It just doesn't define who I am. I think if we start to flip the script on that, it changes everything. So one of the things you guys talked about earlier was how much is enough, and you can fill in the blank with whatever that is, and I have struggled with that.
Speaker 4:How much is enough money? How much is enough success? And I've really struggled with that because a lot of the times I'm looking at it for my own glory how much is enough for Brett, like I don't need that much? But when I start to say it's all his and it's all kingdom and it's all going to that anyways, then I'm like it just changes the I'll make whatever. If I make a ton billion dollars and it goes for that, like it's just more impact, more significance for the kingdom.
Speaker 2:It just changes everything You're touching on something I was thinking as you were going through those, some of those questions, you know, the, the, the why, right, why we do it, what you know, what are we going to do with it? The you know, and you know there's a. There's a guy that we know from many years ago and Mark Mann Weekends used to say with his, with his you know, thick Boston accent who you're doing it for, who you're doing it for, you know, and I and I, you know, I loved that. I'm like, yeah, you know, that's one of the best questions I think we can ask, like who, the who question. You know, it's not just the why, but who are we doing it for? Is it for me or is it for him? Right, and man asking that question day in and day out, even in every interaction, right In our business, in our family, in our relationships. Who are we doing it for? When that, all of a sudden, when that becomes the sole motivation of our heart, right, wow, that's a game changer. It's a game changer.
Speaker 4:Like I love humility, like just just the word. I think it's the greatest virtue, obviously the most humble. Christ humbled himself on a cross, a criminal's death, and you know I talk about humility at Iron Deep. And how. What would it look like if we could put again him before us, or even you guys before me, and we talk about success and like what would it look like Like if I could literally have a heart posture that I actually care about your guys' success more than my own and I could celebrate that and genuinely celebrate it? Yeah, like, what would that look like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, what does that look like?
Speaker 4:I was just saying, but that is the heart of the most humble. Yes and can we get there? You can only get there through intimacy with the Father.
Speaker 1:Amen that question is obviously God's answer to me. I'm sitting here thinking should I ask him this question?
Speaker 3:And I'm like, nah, just let it go, We'll do it in like phase two.
Speaker 1:but I'm going to ask anyhow, in your experience in Iron Deep and in life, what would you say to the listeners and men out there who think, like I did for many, many years. Well, it's easy to give your heart to God once you made all your money, your success, oh yeah, you prioritize significance over success. Well, when the equation is, I've already got my success, it's very, very different when you're living hand to mouth and struggling to pay your bills every month and just making it. Your vacation is a staycation, et cetera, et cetera. So how would you address men who look at life with that lens? That is easy for you guys to say You've reached a stage in your life where you're successful.
Speaker 4:What do you think?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, that's good. Have you run into that?
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I think I go back to the verse, you know, when Paul's just talking about just start studying. You know, I've lived with abundance. I've lived with so much. I've had abundance and success and all the and reckoning, recognition and all these different things. And then I've lived in prisons and chains and not with nothing and it's all just mere rags for the sake of you know, with Christ and I so, and you guys can probably relate to this too, and I've lived somewhat my life in those ways. I've had, I've had nothing and I've had a lot.
Speaker 4:That stuff doesn't change, like my heart honestly, even like some of my fulfillment. Have I had some highs? We're like, yeah, that's really cool Because I did that. Or, you know, maybe we reached something where we've done that. But at the end of the day, you know, like you said, sarge, it's very temporary, it doesn't last my fulfillment, the only thing that if I consistently show up, you know with God and my life, so you know I get it. You know, outside, looking in, it does look like, yeah, you guys have it made. You can say that now because you have a certain level of success and I just try to put my I always try to put myself in the other and then the other shoes. But if it was all lost and if it was all stripped away, sometimes intimacy with God becomes sweeter, like you even think they said that Sarge when you are dependent.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah right, it's so important.
Speaker 2:It is, and I and I it's where my head went as well, because you know it's, it's, it's almost the wrong question, right, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's not, it's, it's neither this nor that, like you said for for from Paul, right, it's. Like you know, I've had it all and you know it didn't impact the, the joy of my, you know, my, my life and the joy of the Lord. Right, I've had nothing and it didn't impact the joy of the Lord that I have. So, like you know and and we, you know I speak for myself I have, I have lived this. I mean you've, you've walked this with me multiple times in my life, having lost nearly everything.
Speaker 2:Right, we have a, a dear brother right now that's facing, you know, that's that's. You know had material success and one, one wrong turn in his truck and, you know, bad accident, and he, he is facing, losing everything and the peace of God and the joy of the Lord and what God is showing him through this. And we've been walking together through this with very different circumstances in our lives, but but there's this common thread and we are, it's amazing the journey that God's got us on in, in in this, and that the, in these moments of suffering and coming to the end of ourself. Show we're God's showing us. Oh yeah, you like your backup plan? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Now that you have one, now that you've got one right. And so those, those guys like listen, we think there's guarantees Like I've got XYZ and my 401k, Do you? I mean, you might today, right, but stock market.
Speaker 1:You know, I mean listen.
Speaker 2:Even get, this is just no guarantee.
Speaker 1:No, and I. I brought that question with an answer in my head. What worked for me? I was one of the guys asking that question 20 years ago and what I learned and took me a long time was I learned that that question is born from the world, infecting me with its judgment system. God does not judge. He doesn't have a scoreboard, an abacus, a calculator, none of the above which, which, which is why the guy that's had success.
Speaker 2:I want to ask him I don't hear about the success. Tell me about your failures.
Speaker 3:I get it, tell me about the suffering.
Speaker 2:Tell me about what God did in your heart throughout your journey. I want to hear your story, man. Yeah, I don't need to hear about how you made the money you made. That's really not of all that much interest to me. Tell me about the you know right the valleys. Tell me about when you're. You are utterly broken at the end of yourself because I would be willing to bet there's probably a bunch of those stories in there If you've actually had some success in your life.
Speaker 4:And I and it's a funny how, like we will, we look at people in that light, like in the worldly light, that we we put them somewhere on this, on this chart right, they're successful.
Speaker 4:Yes, even people on the podcast that I've interviewed on the podcast, like I'll have somebody versus someone else. Like you know, I think I had a billionaire on the podcast and I was like and the world came out of me right before the show and I was like man, I don't know what the ass is, dude. Yeah, like this guy has everything. And then God just kind of said this guy, he's just a man Right, see him how I see him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right.
Speaker 4:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 4:And I think, if we can just see men and women as as God sees them, and start to have his eyes, oh man, it's a, it's a, it's a cool thing. So, yeah, I like it.
Speaker 1:That's a great ripple. I like that. Well, we're going to have to start winding this up. Yes, yeah, we're there. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, definitely no. Thank you guys so much for having me on the show. I really appreciate. You guys are awesome. I love what you guys are doing. If I can be of any support to you, we're all in this with a singular purpose and there's no competition and we, you know, we can all bring him glory. So thank you guys so much for letting me allow allowed me to be on the show. So number one the secret war within. Yeah, I mean, the best way to really support the book is just to go to Amazon and get the book and then leave us a five star review.
Speaker 4:We've had a lot of great response. If you're a man or a woman, woman have even resonated with this too, that it just hits home with them. Yeah, it's a very short read. It's. It's a fictional, allegory style of a book. I think that you'll get something out of it. I would love to just hear what you get out of it.
Speaker 4:As far as iron deep goes, if you're a man and you know you're in that business world and you're looking for just other men to relate to, we're having events. We typically start off with a three day intensive retreat. We do about one of those per year, so we're going to have one coming up in 2024. You can get all that on our website, irondeepcom. We're also doing some other events. Guys want to bring a spouse, so we're toying around with doing an event around that and one of our main missions is to build those tribes or those small groups of 10 to 12 guys that really want to do to do life together. You know, just like probably some of what you guys are doing, we grow. Number one, three areas that we really focus in on is our faith Definitely start off there Our families and our deep relationships, and then we do talk about business and try to grow our business in a kingdom way. So if you're interested in that, irondeepcom is ready to go.
Speaker 2:I love it. I love it, man. Some awesome resources, and so you know we're always encouraging folks to check out all the resources and what resonates with them, right, and there's, there's sort of you know God's rainbow of choices out there, right To get plugged in, and you know there's. So there's literally no excuses because there's just countless opportunities and and that's what we try to do here is highlight them and say, hey, how about this, how about this, how about you like chocolate, vanilla, pistachio, what's what's your, what's your flavor here? And we just love what you're doing. We're we're big fans and we're excited for what God is doing through you, brad, and through Iron Deep and in the book and boy. We just encourage you and want to cheer you on and keep going and we'll be watching and would love to have you back some time to just report on. You know what God is doing in, in the ministry and in your life, and so thank you for for being on Really appreciate it.
Speaker 4:Yes, yeah Now. Thank you guys. Sarge, mark, we appreciate, appreciate your friendship and, yeah, I'd love to just hear more about how I can support you. So thanks again.
Speaker 1:Great to have you in the Foxhole.
Speaker 2:Yeah, happy New Year. Brad and listeners, happy New Year. Glad that you're with us and be sure and check out all of Brett's resources. It's it's listed right in the podcast notes, so check it out and thanks for listening. God bless you.
Speaker 4:Hi Peace.
Speaker 3:I'm inspired to hear how God is using Brett and his local community Seems to be a recurring theme in this broken world. God is calling his faithful sons to step out, take the mass off and build these micro communities that have him at the center. I love the challenge from Brett. What would it look like if we acted in selfless ways to the people around us? What if we helped for the sake of helping, not to see what I can get in return, not for the accolades or the admiration, but to see you achieve a goal, finish a mission and celebrate your victory? How many men would be impacted and not only the men how many lives would be impacted if we step out in true God honoring humility?
Speaker 3:I know you might think I'm a man. I know you might think I sound like a broken record. Sorry, not sorry. If you are not in a foxhole of some sort, it's time to find one. They're everywhere. If you got it all figured out, great. Go find a foxhole and see how God wants to use you and grow you. Lord, please continue to use this podcast to impact the lives of all who listen. I ask that you would bring hope and healing to each and every one of them, Lord, Meet them right where they are and reveal yourself to them like only you can do, in Jesus' name Amen.
Speaker 2:DRAP A LINE.
