Sailing the Seas of Uncertainty with Faith as Our Compass

When life feels like an uphill battle with no end in sight, we often need a beacon to guide us through the darkness.  Join us for a heartening discussion about choosing faith over fear, a mantra that has helped us navigate the toughest of times. Together, we dissect the powerful lyrics of "Fear is a Liar" by Zach Williams and share a personal tale that illustrates the transformative role community and steadfast relationships play when adversity strikes. We underline the message that fear doesn't get to make the rules in our lives; instead, leaning into our bonds can help us emerge stronger on the other side.

Uncertainty can be like uncharted waters, but is there a way to sail through without losing oneself to fear? In a chapter of our lives where control seems like a distant dream, we explore the analogy of a bus ride, questioning whether to stay aboard or rush for the exit in pursuit of a false sense of control. In this contemplative segment, Sarge and Mark unravel the importance of surrender, finding tranquility in stillness, and embracing the strategy of presence over frantic action. It's a reminder that true peace often lies in awareness and faith, even when the future is a murky horizon.

As we circle back to the essence of personal growth, we reflect on our poignant journey at a Marked Men Phase 1 weekend experience and the ongoing evolution that follows. We discuss the delicate dance between action and surrender, and how scripture, specifically Micah 6:8, can light our path through life's labyrinth. Closing with an invitation to engage with our Foxhole Symphony Community, we stress the importance of sharing our stories to fortify each other. After all, it's in unity that we find the strength to face challenges, grow, and remain anchored in our faith.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Welcome to Foxhole Symphony, a podcast about the transformational value of men in authentic community.

Speaker 2: 0:14

In our foxhole. Men are equipped to build relationships that foster belonging, accountability and growth.

Speaker 1: 0:20

Stop believing the lie that you can thrive in isolation and instead join us on the journey from broken to whole.

Speaker 3: 0:27

Hello everyone. They call me the Maestro and we are back in the foxhole where we actively pursue belonging, accountability and growth through authentic relationships. No masks, no agendas, just iron sharpening iron. Mark and Steve are in the foxhole bright and early and ready to go. But before we jump in today, I want to take a second to remind everyone that there's a great opportunity for our listeners.

Speaker 3: 0:50

After hundreds of hours of marriage counseling, our friends at ReStory Counseling know that couples who want to thrive need consistent coaching where books, friends and churches don't suffice. They need ongoing care from professional counselors, a pathway to depth and connection, a community of couples that normalize marriage issues and guided conversations for intentional dates. Thrive Marriage Lab is a high-touch community. You will see, connect with and get to know counselors and other couples. Thrive offers the framework and processes you will receive in counseling, because counselors designed and lead the lab, but without the weekly financial investment. Whether you are engaged, newlyweds or married for 40 plus years, thrive offers growth at all stages and invites you to keep going deeper and deeper. They only open once a year for this unique 12-month journey. Go to restorylife forward. Slash thrive to learn more and join today. Make sure when you jump in there. Use code foxhole for $20 off each month as a friend of this podcast. Well, you know what time it is, folks. Open your favorite notes app and settle in, because we start in three, two, one.

Speaker 1: 2:15

Hey, welcome back to the Foxhole Symphony Podcast. I'm Mark Vesper and I'm here with my good friend and podcast co-host, Sarge Steve Sargent.

Speaker 2: 2:26

Yeah man, how are you bro? I'm good, I'm good, I'm glad to be here with you. Same, it's a good place to be.

Speaker 1: 2:32

Yeah, I love when we do this with the twinkle in our eyes about what the heck are we talking about?

Speaker 2: 2:38

Yeah, exactly Right. No prep whatsoever.

Speaker 1: 2:42

Well, you know what? I beg to differ because God is so at work in us, this journey. You used a great metaphor this morning that made me think of something. You said that you were talking about something I think it was at home, and you said I'm pushing this rock up the hill. And what it made me think of is often life is like that. It feels like. You know, I think Sisyphus was the guy that pushed the rock up the hill, and I realized the rock, once you push it, it doesn't stay where you get it to. It starts rolling back at you. That was the vision I had in my head is like some of these rocks that were pushing up the hill, you don't just take a break.

Speaker 2: 3:25

Yeah, all of a sudden it's like ah yeah, it sounds like the life of Peter the rock.

Speaker 1: 3:29

Right, right. So we're a shout out to all the men and women who might be listening, who feel some days that it's a task. The journey requires work, hard, hard, hard work, and and some days it's just damn tough.

Speaker 2: 3:48

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 3:48

And it doesn't help that it's 34 and raining right now, at least where we are at the moment. That's right, hope. Where you are, folks listening, it's bright and sunshine and white clouds and you feel good. You know cause we're gonna. We're gonna tough this one out a little bit.

Speaker 2: 4:05

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:05

But that's okay. Remember, michael Jordan had like 104 fever and he scored 50 on the next.

Speaker 2: 4:12

So come on faith. Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 1: 4:15

Right, that's all there is to it. Yeah, yeah, forget about faith, faith over fear.

Speaker 2: 4:19

So I got an email this morning, um, and that was the subject line and it was about some upcoming events, and there was a picture that said faith with a line fear right, faith over fear, and referenced a song that I really love, that I was turned on to by a dear brother of ours, d-lo, a while back Fear is a liar. You know that one? I don't. Oh, you got to listen to it. Who?

Speaker 1: 4:45

does it.

Speaker 2: 4:46

Zach Williams. No, I think it's Zach Williams. Okay, faith is a Liar, I'm sorry. Fear is a Liar. Fear is a Liar.

Speaker 1: 4:54

Fear is a Liar, faith is a Liar. Uh-oh, got that wrong.

Speaker 2: 4:59

Yeah. So here, let's see. Yeah, zach williams fair's a liar man. It is so good, it is such a and you know I'm, I'm. Can you hum a few bars? I'm kidding, no, you don't. You don't want that, um, but you know it just as I'm reading that. So a couple of a couple of lines, I'll give you a couple of a couple of lines. It's.

Speaker 2: 5:22

It starts out when he told you you're not good enough. When he told you you're not right. When he told you you're not strong enough to put up a good fight. When he told you you're not worthy. When he told you you're not loved. When he told you you're not beautiful. You'll never be enough.

Speaker 2: 5:42

Fear, he is a liar. He'll take your breath. Stop you in your steps. Fear, he is a liar. He'll take your breath. Stop you in your steps. Fear, he is a liar. He will rob your rest, steal your happiness, cast your fear in the fire, because fear is a liar. And you know, when there's uncertainty in your life, let me rephrase that. When there's uncertainty in your life, let me rephrase that. When there's uncertainty in my life, right, man, that's when fear sets in. Most right, just the fear of the unknown. Where's this going? Where's this headed, and you know. And yet that's when I think God does his greatest work in us and you know, just molding and shaping our hearts Again, this journey of surrender that I'm on right, this faith building journey of surrender, really I I think requires a level of uncertainty like in God's built in grand plan. Right, yeah, cause otherwise, right Um at least for me.

Speaker 1: 6:56

For me, I mean like Lee Trevino. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:58

I mean, it could be just, you know, challenging circumstances and and other things, but for me it's the uncertainty. It's the uncertainty. And so this, you know faith over fear. This, you know, fear is a liar. And you know, so much of this is tied to, as the song lyrics state, so much of it's tied to who we are, our identity, right, and the messages, the lies that fear whispers or sometimes shouts. Right, you're not enough. Right, all these things that are rooted in uncertainty. Right, like what's the result? The result, you know where, and what's my role in this? How am I going? You know, pushing the rock uphill, leading my family or my team, or whatever. It is Right, um, so, anyway, what, what, what are you hearing?

Speaker 1: 8:00

Oh, I'm first of all that I can stoke that fear fire to a roaring. You know, shadrach, meshach and Abednego never saw an oven cooking like that one. That's the first thing that came to my mind is just fear, the insidious effect of fear Probably why I don't like horror movies but just it can go from little embers to a roaring fire in me and I just start to ask all these negative questions that that fear stokes a. You know I'm pretty confident guy but well and we're both left.

Speaker 2: 8:42

Yeah, and we're both planners. Speaking of turning left right, we're both planners, we everybody that listens to this podcast knows that. And so you know, when we don't have it all figured out and we're both in situations where we don't have it all figured out we don't have the answers, we don't know where this is headed. We're on the bus, you know, careening down the highway at 90 miles an hour around sharp curves, and we can't see around the curve, and you know we're both in that they're very different situations and very, very different circumstances, but at the root of it, foundationally, it's very similar.

Speaker 1: 9:19

It is. And when I get there, when I get on that bus and have to release, surrender the turns I quickly go to there's no end in sight, like where am I going? When can I get off this bus? Yeah, what's the destination? Right, right, because I'm goal oriented. But that no end in sight feeling is really troubling. That's where this conversation leads me pretty quickly is how do I course correct, how do I change this, can I?

Speaker 1: 9:53

I'm old enough to remember the buses where their little gray wire was going across and you'd have to pull it. Sure, ding, ding. Do you remember Next stop. Yeah, I want to get off here. Dude, I'm pulling. Stop the. Yeah, I want to get off here, dude, I'm pulling. Stop the bus, I want to get off.

Speaker 1: 10:08

I would all, and I'll be honest, if God wants me to stay on the bus, I'm okay. But can I ring the ding ding just to go to talk to the driver a little bit? Yeah, whoever's driving. Just, could you consider making a right here? There's a sin I'd like to visit over there. You know, yeah, that's my, my, my life metaphor for today is the, the gray wire on the bus. Then they changed it to the electronic one, where you pushed it a little press. Yeah, I'm sure I haven't ridden a bus in a very long time, except at Disney world, but they don't have those anymore. In any case, I'm um, I get pretty twisted up and I am right now about some things in my home, for instance, that seem like the never ending story. Do you remember that movie?

Speaker 2: 10:53

The never ending story.

Speaker 1: 10:53

Yep, I've got some of those and the only comfort I'm finding is that I'm living in a time of deep immersion in the Word, some great reading plans, some awesome learnings in the Bible project that keep me focused there, and everything I'm reading tells me God's at work here in me. But I have to admit it is scary, it's maddening and frustrating. Yeah, I want to control it and change the things that feel like they'll never change in my house. Yeah, I want to take them and squeeze them and make them mine.

Speaker 2: 11:41

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:41

Does that make any sense?

Speaker 2: 11:42

It makes total sense. I was going to ask, before you said all that so what do you do when there's no end in sight? And you answered that. But you know, I think, for me, I describe it as like disorienting. It's, it's this sort of disorientation that I feel like I need to grab hold of something, right, it's. Is it being on the bus being, you know, you know, having vertigo, motion sickness. You know all of this, right, you know, fear upon fear upon fear, and you know coming to the conclusion that I have no control, and you know, really, it's an illusion anyway. So what can I control?

Speaker 2: 12:24

And we've talked a little bit about this, but you know what are the things that I can control. I can control my, my attitudes, you know I can control. You know again, what am I going to do? How am I going to behave? Who am I going to turn to? You know what? What? What do you do in the midst of the disorientation and what's not helpful? Kind of like a drowning person, right, getting rescued, right, flailing their arms and grabbing onto the rescuer and pulling them under right. That's what it's like. It's like no, no, no, no, no, no. Just float on your back, just float, find the top of the water. Let you go right and find a place to rest and float, find the top of the water, the tide will let you go.

Speaker 2: 13:04

Right and find a place to rest and float. But when the fear takes over, the drowning person gets anxious, starts hyperventilating, is going under. You're disoriented, you're disoriented.

Speaker 1: 13:20

That's the fear fire Right At full blast. By the way, I just had a great vision of you. I have seen you there when you were just talking about letting go and releasing and the tide and so on and so forth. I had a vision of you at a Marked Men P1 sitting down in a chair with your hands open on your knees, weeping and surrendered. That is one of the pictures in my head of you surrendered, yeah, where something has come over you. The Holy Spirit has come over you at that moment and you've said that I'm giving it.

Speaker 2: 13:57

I'm giving it to you, yeah, I think you know, yes, and for me, that having that time, carving out that time to just be, to listen to the father, to, to, to, to, to be present to, you know, get grounded. You know you said you talked about being grounded in the word and and you know, in, in prayer and meditation, you know this idea of presence over production. What makes it worse, the flailing drowning, you know person in me is grasping up. We'll just get productive just because I need to fix everything.

Speaker 2: 14:35

Yeah, you need to do something. I need to feel like I'm I'm, I'm moving in the right direction. So just start creating, start creating, start producing and you know, that's a natural tendency for me when, in reality, the the best place for me to to to be is in the exact opposite direction.

Speaker 1: 14:52

And dude, that's masterclass stuff. Right there, that's the PhD Is it?

Speaker 2: 14:59

I guess it is yeah, only through failure.

Speaker 1: 15:01

Well, that's just it. Though you have walked that walk, you know both sides of that, you have an awareness, yes, and that awareness yeah, the awareness is huge Kills.

Speaker 2: 15:14

Fear, yeah. And that awareness yeah, the awareness is huge Kills fear.

Speaker 1: 15:17

Yeah, it does, it does the awareness is huge.

Speaker 2: 15:19

Why do we keep going back?

Speaker 1: 15:20

Yeah, no end in sight, yeah.

Speaker 2: 15:22

Well, sometimes it just seeps in. It just seeps in, it doesn't. It's not like a hammer over the head, it's. It's this sort of incremental. You know, the enemy builds a wall brick by brick. It doesn't just throw a wall up. When you've had the master class and you've got a high level of awareness and you're connected to the vine, Well, be watch out, be alert, right, because the enemy's cunning and again it's the wall goes up brick by brick and all of a sudden you're like, okay, that's not. And then now there's this wall.

Speaker 1: 15:52

The world needs more alerts by the way.

Speaker 2: 15:54

That's right.

Speaker 1: 15:56

Yeah, dude, let's. I want to stay there for a minute because there's a. How important is it that we've walked together in this journey, together and separately, actually have life experience and and know that the enemy doesn't take a day off and that seeping back, that little backstep, that right, I'm doing so many good things. I told you the ragamuffin gospel, talking about proving my worth to God, is so in my head right now, and this is all tied together, or I could tie it together, but the fear that we're talking about is pretty constant. I feel like we have this force field around us, to use a Marvel phrase, right, and the enemy's trying to break through, but for me it's word immersion and you and it's my friends, it's victorious together. I know I've said this a thousand times, but it's how I feel If I don't stay firm and constant in working with God, in accepting the Holy Spirit's power in my life, in knowing that there's a Jesus, a man who walked this earth for me.

Speaker 2: 17:14

That's just it right. So what do you do in the midst of uncertainty? You find certainty. And as relentless as the attacks of the enemy are, God doesn't take a day off either, and his love is relentless right.

Speaker 2: 17:28

You know his presence is relentless, his work is relentless in us and you know his power is relentless. You know there's certainty in all of this right, there's hope in the midst of hopeless circumstances. There's, you know there's certainty amidst the uncertainty, and that is that God's promises, god's provision and God's plans are certain. Promises, god's provision and God's plans are are certain, you know. And, and you know it's when we take those back and we say I've got, I've got to be the provider, I've got to. You know I need the plan right Um, that there becomes. You know we're now, we're now building on on on sand. You know a bit.

Speaker 1: 18:13

Well, not only yeah, I'm not only building on sand, but I'm also not bracing, right, I see some of these. The construction that I do in my life needs braces. It's not, you know, connecting the dots anymore, it's connecting them with a you know, screwed and glued together so that they hold up to the stress of the day.

Speaker 2: 18:36

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:36

These things that seem like they're not changing in my house. I you know, I know God is with me, I know God sees me, I know he hears me. Yet I still sin, I still regret, I still have shame and guilt and I'm wounded, sure In the course of the day, sure.

Speaker 2: 18:53

Moment by moment, yeah, but it doesn't define you Correct. And in those moments, turning them over, the Lord wants, wants all of that, and you know, of course, that enemy wants those to be our, you know, wants to see us labeling ourselves as those wounds, as opposed to allowing them to pass by. Right, allowing them to pass by, and I think that's, I think that's, you know, a really critical practice, is to be. It's awareness versus identification.

Speaker 2: 19:25

It's being aware of it and allowing it to pass by and um again, finding certainty in you know, god's forgiveness's forgiveness, and in the gospel.

Speaker 1: 19:38

And that's it. Yes, you're helping me right now because that awareness for me, the acknowledgement of my sins, the confession of my sins, repenting from my sins, talking to my God, who knows exactly what I'm doing and thinking and shouldn't be doing and thinking, and putting myself in a position to turn yeah, right, I can turn back towards him. Repentance Right.

Speaker 2: 20:01

It's the act of, it's the act of repentance and the healing that comes through that.

Speaker 1: 20:05

And and I need that that's not a bandaid man, that's a tourniquet Right For me. I need it over and over and over. I'm not saying I want to keep sinning so I can get back to repentance, but I'm learning. I'm learning through that. Brandon Manning in the Ragamuffin Gospel talks about God's furious love and he said Do you trust that you have a God who is head over heels in love with you? There it is.

Speaker 2: 20:34

Exclamation point end of book.

Speaker 1: 20:39

Afterword there it is.

Speaker 2: 20:41

I mean, really, that's the certainty, that is the certainty amidst the uncertainty. The question is is that enough? Is that enough? Is it enough for you? Is it enough for me? Enough, is it enough for you? Is it enough for me? And, um, you know, and I, I, I get that there are difficult circumstances and when the uncertainty in our lives is relational, sometimes that's the most challenging right, because again we we, we we right.

Speaker 2: 21:15

Um, you know, thinking about our, our marriages. You know talking about marriage. You know, and, and if, if, if your marriage is strained or challenged, or you know, in, in, in shambles, um, you know, or again, you've, you've got, uh, you know these two people. You know you and your spouse are on not only different pages on this world, but maybe different pages spiritually, which deeply impact. You know the lens through which decisions are made in the household and in the marriage and all of that Right. So what do you do? And on that note, I want to shout out Thrive Marriage Lab. So if you're in a situation like that, or maybe your marriage is healthy but you're looking for more, you want a thriving marriage and yet maybe you and your spouse find yourselves more defensive than curious. You feel more like roommates than lovers. You're conflicted, not connected. Maybe you have more distrust than intimacy. You've probably read all the books, maybe you've attended conferences. You know your marriage needs more than that, but you don't necessarily want to start traditional marriage counseling.

Speaker 2: 22:27

The Thrive Marriage Lab is the solution between books and counseling, serving up hope, not prescriptions. Once a year, the doors open to join this unique 12-month journey and Mark and I are big believers in this. Led by experienced marriage counselors, members receive live and recorded monthly engagement through an intentional pathway guaranteed to lead to more curiosity, more intimacy and more connection. Now, as a faithful listener of the Foxhole Symphony, you get $20 off each month when you use the code FOXHOLE. So if you want to know more, go to restorylife forward slash thrive. Restorylife forward, slash thrive. To learn more and join today, don't forget to use the promo code foxhole Foxhole.

Speaker 1: 23:17

Well, worth it. Absolutely, and it'll be in the show notes, absolutely, so that you can click the link there. Thank you for that important tangent. Can I ragamuffin you for a second? Absolutely, all right. So I'm staying in the. I love muffins, by the way. I like muffin tops. Yeah, absolutely, it's the best part. Oh, don't get me started. The knobby kind with the cinnamon sugar, love it. Well, if I go to Sweet Melissa's, here I come, I'm thinking about I'm reading the book. I've just finished reading the book Ragamuffin Gospel and really, really enjoyed it, highly recommend it and shout out to Brennan Manning and all the people that are tied to that way of thinking and if you're not familiar with it, I mean grab the book or just YouTube it.

Speaker 2: 24:04

Just YouTube Ragamuffin, gospel Brennan Manning and take a listen. You'll be blown away.

Speaker 1: 24:10

We'll talk about it more another time, but I had to look up ragamuffin because he uses it as a noun, as a verb, as an adverb. You know us ragamuffins, and so the three words that continually come up Wikipedia and every place else is dirty, bedraggled and beaten. That's how you define a ragamuffin, and it used to actually, way back when, used to define a class of people and often cats believe it or not, ragamuffins, so.

Speaker 1: 24:42

so whether you can apply those adjectives to your life or not, I don't think is the most important thing. It, uh, our friend Chris the maestro, always prays about um. He says Lord, I'm a filthy rag, he's a ragamuffin. Right is how he presents, and I'm convinced that I am spending so much time each day trying to prove to God I am worthy of his love that I get distracted, and that's when sin comes in for me.

Speaker 2: 25:19

Yes and yes. That goes back to what I was saying earlier about the fear right and these lies that we tend to attach to our identity and are in stark contrast to the truth of who we are and who God says we are and being recipients of his love. And you know I mean listen. The truth is we are well-versed and practiced in having our identities tied to our production, Absolutely. It's the world we live in. I mean. So breaking out of that, you know, a dear friend of mine recently referred to it as the Exodus from the hustle. An Exodus from the hustle, like you know this, I think you know this is why people take sabbatical. You know is is to to break out to as an Exodus from the hustle, to soak in the void of production right, which is so counter-cultural and counter-intuitive to many of us due to our wiring, but has to be redone, has to be rewired. We need a rewiring, has to be rewired. We need a rewiring.

Speaker 1: 26:51

I mean, I need a rewiring over and over and over and over and over again for that very reason, because of my goal orientation. When I hear you say that part of my brain would be so comfortable thinking if I just rewired once, everything will be okay. Thinking if I just rewired once, everything will be okay, I know that's not who I am. I know that's not how God made me and I am now becoming comfortable with the fact that I'm a broken sinner. I'm going to screw up, but my God loves me and I'm going to be okay through the mess, through the mire, through the muck, through the bedraggled, broken, dirty, ragamuffin self that I am. This is just going to be a tough journey that I've chosen, it's my choice and that I'm going to come out the other side with my God and it's going to be a good day at the end. I just there are many mornings. The truth is I wake up going. Do I have to do this again? Yeah, when's?

Speaker 1: 27:49

the end what's? You know? How did I get myself in this mess? And, lord, could you please extricate us from this, pull us out of here. I'd like to exodus this mess right now. Yeah, you know, in my house I really, really would, but I have to settle with it's, god's timing and I don't want to miss anything. Right, I want to own my part and do what I can do to help, sure, but I also finding the balance in the surrendered life that you constantly refer to for this year, and making sure that I'm a catalyst for good, if that Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 28:30

Yeah, in other words, not, not, not being, it is attention, it's, it's, it's both, it's both and right being surrendered and and also taking, taking action right, like we're not called to just stick your head in the sand and hide under the bed. You know that that's not being surrendered, that's hiding, right, right.

Speaker 2: 28:50

Call me out, lord, when you're ready to do something, good yeah. And then on the other end of the spectrum, you know, there's the, the person who's, you know, maybe pulling their family, saying, you know, with, just relentlessly, without compassion or empathy or anything else, or any, any, any love understanding or love, just driving.

Speaker 1: 29:11

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:11

Right Saying this is what we're doing, you know. So, yeah, it's. And this is not black and white man, the, the, the middle of that spectrum. You know where we're called to be and that is you know to to lead effectively and lovingly and appropriately. Huh, where's the manual for that?

Speaker 1: 29:36

I was just going to say how do you define those in your house, because it might be different here.

Speaker 2: 29:41

That's the mess you want to switch. That's the mess, though, right. That's where we need wisdom from the Lord. That's where we need you know, day by day, moment by moment. It's not all or nothing, it's not black and white. It's in this moment, right now. Lord, your spirit in me. Guide me, guide us. Is this a time to lead? Is this a time to pull back? Is this a time to you know? Exhibit compassion and empathy? Is this a time to say you know no?

Speaker 1: 30:14

Right. I'm trying to walk humbly in. This is so hard for me because I want, I want to fix it. The truth is, I want to fix it and move on from it. I suffer from the lie in my head that if I fix this problem, everything's going to be just fine. Yeah, exactly, life will be so good if I don't have this problem. Right, it's such a bunch of baloney it is.

Speaker 2: 30:46

Baloney, right, and you know the but I do it to myself every day and the walk humbly part. I mean it's foundational right. Act, you know, act justly, micah Love, mercy, walk humbly, like that should be the foundation for exactly what we're talking about here, right, for exactly what we're talking about here, right, for how to lead effectively and appropriately in the midst of horrifically challenging circumstances that we can't control or figure out. I think that that is foundational. Is it Micah 6.8? Micah 6.8. Yeah, I mean yeah, behind your head. Oh, that's so funny. Look at that. Eight, micah six? Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean that behind your head. Oh, that's so funny, look at that.

Speaker 2: 31:26

Yeah, oh. And right next to it says quick to listen, slow to speak.

Speaker 1: 31:31

These are some signs on the wall in our folks, in our foxhole studio, there are some things on my wall that remind me of important things, and right behind Sarge's head is Micah six eight.

Speaker 2: 31:43

So there you go, you're looking at them, I don't even need to say them.

Speaker 1: 31:47

No, you do. Oh, that's funny, you do. But.

Speaker 2: 31:49

I mean, there, it is right and so well, how do you do that? Well, our hearts better be on the table for the Lord to do some surgery first, right, and not just first, but ongoing, ongoing heart surgery, doing our own work, identify, being aware of our woundedness, being, you know, looking within first and then and then saying, okay, lord, I have no control over this situation. I have no idea how to lead here. I have no idea how to do this. Well, would you lead, would you guide, and I will be your vessel? I mean, it starts there, asking him, like literally asking, and I know you're doing that, I know you are doing that prayerfully and you know, as am I. And then the painful part is waiting. The painful part is waiting. The painful part is waiting Patiently.

Speaker 2: 32:48

My neck hurts, and believing, and believing that God will do it, that he will make a way in the wilderness. You know that he will light the path.

Speaker 1: 33:02

You mentioned woundedness in this and if that makes you crinkle up your nose, listeners that you don't understand what that means. Just I invite you to put yourself in a position where you're praying for God to surround you with men who'll help you understand how woundedness from your past keeps you from a thriving relationship the furious love of God as Brendan talks about and I only know that because you invited me to a Marked Men P1 in 2011. We've talked about it many, many, many times. I know there are other ways to do it I'm sure you could through counseling, but I've got to give a shout out to Spice and the gang at Marked Men for Christ and say, if you're not sure what that means or how that impacts your walk, I can't begin to tell you what a life-changing experience my P1 was and how important it was to try.

Speaker 2: 33:59

Yeah, so folks go to markedmenforchristorg and look at the phase one experience. There's one near you, I promise all over the world, so check it out. And women go to womenswalkwithchristorg. That's the sister ministry, totally separate ministry, but a very, very similar experience for women.

Speaker 1: 34:21

I want to tell you, my ragamuffin buddy, that this bus that we're on, it's okay to be in the back. Okay, you're coming back. It's okay to be on that bus with men that you trust in a journey that you know can be fruitful. You've got to devote yourself to a couple of things, and it's a relationship with the furious love of God. It's walking humbly in your home as you lead. It's acknowledging and being aware that sin is real, fear is real, but God's love is bigger than both of them and it's available to you, to me, and I live on that every day and I feel so much better right now than I did.

Speaker 1: 35:04

37 minutes ago just feeling like I was stuck in this pernicious loop that we talked about.

Speaker 2: 35:10

And here's the thing we're not stuck. And so I want to shout out, really point out, the lie that if we're standing still, if we're spending quiet time, if we're resting, if we're, if you're disoriented right and you're, you're in that space, you're not stuck. You might be stagnant, you might be still, but that's exactly where God wants you. You're not stuck, you're not stuck. And so the the, the bus, the bus is moving Right, and so we're, life is moving, life is happening. So you know it's, it's interesting.

Speaker 2: 35:51

You know we use these terms, like you know, in in project management and in work. You know we're, we're changing the, changing the tires on a moving car, right, we're, we're building the airplane in the air. Right, I'm herding cats, like well, guess what that's life Like, that is our lives, we, we literally are. So if my point is this if you're waiting to get it all right before you start acting and making decisions or leading your family or doing whatever it is that you feel, you know, is your responsibility or your calling, it'll never happen Right, it's not going to happen. This journey of transformation that we're on, this bus ride that we're on, we, we literally, are the cars having our tires changed. Careening down the highway right we are the airplane being built in the air. That is life. That's how it works.

Speaker 1: 36:47

By the way, just the metaphor you used about how fast things are moving, whether you're standing still or stagnant. I don't think still and stagnant go together at all, but it makes me think of now, here in New Jersey, where we are, and bulbs that just sit still for the whole winter here, and then, because of God's grace in the sun and everything being right, they, they blossom.

Speaker 2: 37:11

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:12

And that will, and it happens over and over and over without you doing anything. The tulips you know when the daffodils pop up, they're there yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:18

You don't have to touch them, and that's, that's the seed, and I find that metaphor works for me as a seed in our hearts. There are times to be still, times to rest, but keep in mind, sarge, when you're sitting, totally still, you are spinning on a planet at tens of thousands of miles an hour, orbiting the sun at tens of thousands of miles an hour in a galaxy that's careening through space at tens of, you know, hundreds of thousands, millions of-.

Speaker 2: 37:45

Which gets me so jacked up, which is exactly why finding yourself in a place where you can be still amidst that, for me, is, like you know, mind bending.

Speaker 1: 37:56

But take heart. Yes, Right, Because you are imagining that. Imagine that you can find stillness and surrender in that time. My brother, I see you walking on the beach in Florida back end of last year, when a lot of things were coming together for you and you gave God a chance. And I would end with saying that listeners give God a chance. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 38:23

Give him a chance, yeah, amen, yep, and, and, yes and um, give him a chance to prove his relentless, furious, furious love for you.

Speaker 1: 38:39

It's there.

Speaker 2: 38:42

Yeah, I'm happy to be on the bus with you. Thanks, ragamuffin Peace.

Speaker 3: 38:46

Peace. This is God's word, Psalms 121. I look up to the mountains. Does my help come from there? My help comes from the Lord, who made heaven and earth. He will not let you stumble. The one who watches over you will not slumber. Indeed, he who watches over Israel never slumbers or sleeps. The Lord himself watches over you. The Lord stands beside you as your protective shade. The sun will not harm you by day, nor the moon at night. The Lord keeps you from all harm and watches over your life. The Lord keeps watch over you as you come and go, both now and forever.

Speaker 3: 39:37

I am reminded that the ultimate goal in our lives is to glorify God in all that we do as we walk this earth as broken people. It's all about our relationship with the one who made us, who loves us, who corrects us and who forgives us. For all of the goal-driven box checkers like myself, perfection comes, but not in this life. For now, we have to love big and trust him even bigger. Lord, please continue to use this podcast to impact the lives of all who listen. I ask that you would bring hope and healing to each and every one of them, Lord. Meet them right where they are and reveal yourself to them like only you can do, In Jesus' name amen.

Speaker 2: 40:30

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