Wild Courage: Vulnerability and Victory in the Quest for Authentic Manhood

As the golden rays of New Jersey's long-awaited sun seep into our studio, we're joined by the inspiring Bryan Byrd, who brings tales of camaraderie from the fires of Wild Courage. Brian's vision of a sanctuary for men to connect through the raw honesty of their shared stories has lit a beacon for many seeking solace from the solitude of recent times. Our conversation meanders through the birth of this ministry, its ethos, and the life-altering moments that occur when men from all walks of life gather to offer support, listen, and grow together. It's these encounters, rich with vulnerability, that underscore the innate power of a community built on the courage to share.

The symphony of voices at our table echoes with the harmony of men finding their equilibrium within the group dynamic. Sarge, Mark, and Bryan weave narratives of how a delicate balance is struck in guiding the conversations of our groups. From the tales of individuals who learn to modulate their need to "show up and throw up," to celebrating the silenced ones who finally find their voice, our episode is a testament to the transformative strength of brotherhood. We delve into the art of patience, the breakthroughs that bond, and the simple yet potent act of being present for one another—without the need for fixing or unsolicited counsel.

As we draw the curtains on this episode, we leave you with a mosaic of stories that speak to the heart of healing through shared experiences. Each anecdote, laden with the wisdom of hindsight, paints a vivid picture of the journey from trauma to redemption. Our shared laughter, moments of silence, and the occasional crackling from the fire pit serve as a backdrop to the rich dialogue about the importance of authenticity, the pitfalls of prioritizing achievement over relationships, and the communal pilgrimage towards a simplified life. We extend an invitation to you, our dear listeners, to join us in this movement of earnest reflection, connection, and spiritual discovery, right here on Foxhole Symphony.

Transcript

Mark: 0:08

Welcome to Foxhole Symphony, a podcast about the transformational value of men in authentic community.

Sarge: 0:14

And our Foxhole men are equipped to build relationships that foster belonging, accountability and growth.

Mark: 0:20

Stop believing the lie that you can thrive in isolation and instead join us on the journey for broken to whole.

Chris: 0:27

Hello everyone. They call me the maestro and we are back in the foxhole where we actively pursue belonging, accountability and growth through authentic relationships. No masks, no agendas, just iron sharpening iron. Steve and Mark are back at it bright and early today, in honor of their special guests. They got a fire pit going and they are warmed up and ready to get to it. You know what you gotta do Open your favorite notes app and settle in Snap crackle pop.

Sarge: 0:57

Hey, welcome back to Foxhole Symphony podcast. I'm Sarge here with my cohost and good friend Mark.

Mark: 1:02

Hey brother, the sun is out in New Jersey. Praise God, wait a minute.

Sarge: 1:07

it's been like two weeks yeah, it feels like two years of, you know, just gray overcast. I mean we're staring out the window here at the sun shining in and a little bit of blue sky, and it is like manna.

Mark: 1:22

Hallelujah, we'll take it, I swear. It's out this morning with the dog, bright and shiny, saw the sunrise and I'm thinking I've seen one of those in a while.

Sarge: 1:31

Really yeah.

Mark: 1:32

I see one most every day, right.

Sarge: 1:34

I walk east. I know you send me a picture almost every morning and it's lovely. Sad is that?

Mark: 1:40

Oh, it's beautiful, it's a beautiful thing. I sent one to my wife too, just so you know. Oh, thank God, thank God, it was getting weird yeah.

Sarge: 1:47

So, hey, man, it's good to be with you and we've got a special guest today and I'm really excited to see where this conversation goes, and so just want to welcome him. His name is Brian Bird, welcome, brian.

Bryan: 2:00

Hey, thank you very much. It's an honor to be here in the Foxhole with you, thank you.

Sarge: 2:04

Yeah, you're welcome. Thanks for getting up early, brian. You are out in Idaho and so it's early here, so it's super early there, and so we thank you for doing that. And you know we'd love it to just kick off and hear a little bit about your ministry really wild courage and I know you've got a couple of brothers that you engage in wild courage with. Can we start there? Tell our listeners a little bit about wild courage and how it even just got started, how it was born?

Bryan: 2:41

Absolutely.

Bryan: 2:42

Thanks for asking. Yeah, but way back in COVID days, 23 years ago, four years ago, we, you know church, churches are shutting down and governments creating rules and people are getting you know an opposite ends of a lot of issues and we saw a lot of guys get isolated and need to have a brother in the Foxhole per se. But they needed to meet. They needed to, we needed to get around to fire and so, buddy of Mine, jeremy Morris and Mike Evenson, a couple more, nick Mauer and Rick Hanfield we got together and we said what can we do, god? What can we do? I think it was a Sunday and church was canceled and we're like we need to do something and we opened up this barn, barn doors, opened it up, put a propane fire on the concrete inside it's a big enough barn to hold it and we said guys, come on in.

Bryan: 3:40

And we invited a few guys and the first few weeks there wasn't very many, but as the weeks went by, we started to see man after man not you know, come around a fire and we simply hold a place and the rules were simple no preaching, no teaching and no advice. And we were led because you can get plenty of that and you can get the best in the world on YouTube in five seconds, but you can't know. You can't, you can't know your neighbor anymore. It's just kind of gone. I was on the East coast for a while and Washington DC and I didn't even you know. I I I worked really hard to try to know my neighbors but it was really hard and we knew we needed to get that back and a neighborly love sort of way. So we the rules were simple no preaching, teaching advice, but we want guys to share their story and you can listen or you could share, and you can't give advice unless asked. And so we started to share our story vulnerably, around a fire, gotten to know each other and Jeremy, mike and I and guys started to come and and very, very quickly, you know, established a place where, where you could be known and seen and, you know, as leaders we'd start off with hey, you know, we've had guys on our leadership team who are full of addiction, who are 13 years sober, three years sober, even three months sober. There's, you know, working on marriages. Guys you like to say we hold tension between those who have joy and those who are mourning, in according to scripture and as guys here they're great, successful marriages but and as guys that might be at the fire, who are struggling Now, the the cool things was started to happen.

Bryan: 5:24

A wild courage in this barn is that the guys were having joy, would share their story and, as you guys know, if they weren't posing and if they, if they weren't trying to act like a big shot and they had it down, they'd tell their story and their great marriage started with I'm not so great marriage. It started with a lot of work. It started with struggle. Sometimes it would start with a big mistake and affair which they overcame, and the guys who were healed or healing in a world further along in their journey started to share their story and that started to give hope. And there was always a guy across the fire who may have been in a little a different stage, may have been struggling hard and didn't have hope and was ready to give up. But because they started coming to a fire, meeting another brother who was further along, who did do the same thing as them whether it was marriage, trauma, addiction they started to find hope. And all of a sudden, guys we went from three guys to 10 and we're exchanging phone numbers and a guy and the government is telling us not to meet. And we got guys that are isolated. They're coming in there hearing that other guys are going to the same thing, they're exchanging phone numbers. All of a sudden this brotherhood forms and crazy stuff starts happening. I mean we got. I mean there's literally a time where we have our one of our best patrons there, doug, who comes in just at the end of his rope. You know, business is hurting, marriage is struggling, relationships with what the sons are not doing well, and we sit down and I start sharing some part of my story at the fire.

Bryan: 7:01

You know, guys, I grew up. I grew up, you know, without my dad divorced. You know, around one year old Santa Fe, new Mexico, I was born and within a year of my birth, my mom's heading off to Idaho and then eventually Iowa, where I grew up with her and my parents divorced. And I'm without my biological father, larry, living in the home and Larry and I are good friends now and we get along great. He's out in South Carolina, but back in the day when I was very, very young, that's kind of started the series of events that were we call them Father List. We'd call them.

Bryan: 7:40

You know an area, yeah, an area of my life where I didn't have a dad in the home and of course that led to all kinds of things where I just had the dad in the home. And being a father became one of my number one goals in my life because of what I didn't have and I have two boys, 16 and 19, one's a rugby player, one's a football player and I just knew from a young age, growing up in an environment without a dad, that I had to be a dad. That was my number one goal. So anyways, I got to it just overtook me, like I'm not gonna repeat this behavior, and anyway I got to share that kind of life with Doug, who was just not having a good relationship with his sons, and he's working on it and he's healing in it. And because I shared what I didn't have, you know, across the fire Doug saw a story in me that gave him hope. He started to work on his, started working stuff. That means when the counselor's seeing the sons, the working on addictions, et cetera, and there's healing there. Three years later he's the.

Bryan: 8:44

You know we go to a fire now and Doug and a few others who've been going for three and a half years. I mean, we just handed them the mic. These guys are leaders. These guys are encouraging young kids who come to the fire. Hey, you're coming in here feeling dejected, feeling down. You think you're alone. You're not. If you, whatever, you're going through someone as far as probably been there and we're gonna share stories tonight to give each other hope.

Sarge: 9:08

Yeah, oh, man, I love it. Thank you for sharing all that and even just weaving some of your story into. You know, the birth of wild courage, beautiful, yeah, that's good stuff, I mean, and so much to jump on there. You know, the first of which is just how God has used and is using, right, the, what he didn't intend necessarily, in. You know, the season of COVID, right, and the isolation that occurred.

Sarge: 9:41

But the beautiful things like wild courage being born out of, you know that. You know horrific time, right, and the isolation that occurred, because you know otherwise, you know those men are maybe just coasting through life, right, getting just enough connection at work or at church on Sunday morning. You know, to rationalize, you know, yeah, I'm connected, right, I'm not. You know I'm not living in isolation, but you know, living a double life, maybe, right, wearing masks that they shouldn't be wearing, and so you know, in God's grace and mercy, right, it uses something like COVID, where there's extreme isolation to you know, not only birth wild courage, but bring some of us to our knees to say, man, I can't. You know I'm starving for connection, right, I'm starving for authentic community.

Mark: 10:34

Oh, and right in those men that don't even know how to put the words that need, it's just oh like, oh right, help there's a fire like there's, warmth there's, maybe safety there there's, but they don't even know what they need. They just come out of desire to connect it. Oh it's good stuff.

Sarge: 10:52

Yeah, I love, I mean, I love the idea of you know, the simplicity of what you guys have done in wild courage, what God has done, and the vision he's given you to simply start a fire and share stories. I mean that is so beautiful because Mark and I often talk about this and people reach out to us saying how do you do this, how do you do band of brothers, how do you start a foxhole, how do you? You know, and it's like we're like man, you know we've, you know we're like just gather, man, just gather like. And the idea of just starting by sharing your stories and finding hope in each other's stories. And we talk about it all the time. Right, guys will show up and you know some guys won't talk for a year. Right, they're just listening and that's okay. Praise God, right.

Mark: 11:41

And I just wanted to mention your first comment about the guy who doesn't talk at all. And the opposite end of the spectrum, brian, in our experience is the guys we lovingly refer to as show up and throw up right, they just, they just they just come in, can't stop.

Sarge: 11:57

Right.

Mark: 11:58

Can't stop Projectile vomiting for two hours. They can dominate a meeting. And how challenging as a leader, how challenging that was for me, I gotta just tell you the truth, but it's all beautiful. You get both ends of the spectrum and everything in the middle About your rules no preach, no teach, no advice, unless you're asked. Sitting here on our recording table is a hammer and a roll of black duct tape, and as soon as you said that, I'm like, ah, they've got a hammer and duct tape there and Brian this is here and has been for.

Mark: 12:31

The band of brothers that we're part of has been meeting for 18 years here in my basement, but about year eight I took out the hammer and duct tape.

Mark: 12:40

It took me eight years to realize I wasn't there to fix anybody and that's what reminds me that the the no advice, no preach, no teach is very hard when you're a leader. It's like, ah okay, he's addicted. I gotta get him to this, this counseling, and then, and over here, connect them to AA. And can I find him a spot? Oh, it was. It was maddening and exhausting. So I just want to say, first of all, hallelujah that and praise God that you did what you did, just you and your friends kicking this off and saying there's a need, let's do it. Well, that I want to honor that and say Sarge and I have just started a new group where we call victorious together back in September so it's less than six months in and it's five dedicated men with. It's not going to grow from there. It's going to be five guys who are pouring into each other and into God and going deeper and deeper, where we're looking for a model that allows us to really really mine. You know our hearts and souls.

Bryan: 13:39

I love that. I love that. Hey, I got it. I got to make a comment on your, on your show up and throw up rule. I love that. I'm writing that down. Well, we call them. We call them talkative toms, and talkative toms would come and and, like you said, with with kind of, you know, we give a couple hours to God for for this setting and we have a hard out, for people have to leave. Then we also also leave time to mingle afterwards and if people do want to find advice, that's great. But we started another rule called land the plane, and people say what's land the plane? I say, well, you'll know it when you're doing it.

Bryan: 14:14

If you, if you're talking, you know over and over and over and taking another man's time, we want to honor that other guy. And the way we honor other people is that we can see that our story is not as important as another person's, or it may be, it's just, it's not more important, it's just as important. But we need to share the platform. So we're going to so, before every meeting, we we land the plane per se and we we offer guys time to practice not having to talk the whole time and at the same time, if they've never talked, we encourage them to talk and we've even we've had a guy go, actually go a year without talking and finally like, hey, we haven't heard from you what's going on. And he, and most of the time he would come every month and he would sit and he'd cry, just not you know, just tears or just rolls down his cheeks. We'd go two hours and we'd look over with great compassion and we'd stand up and he'd leave at the end. And they did this for, you know, almost a year. And when, when we invited him finally saying, hey, here's a lot to come here and not say a whole lot, we want to know you, he opened up, he, he, he stuttered a little bit and he was nervous, but he was ready and it and he told his story of brokenness and and a hard time. You know, growing up with a father who was dictatorship and took his money and Stole from him, and you know there's abuse involved and it was very traumatic and I just want to share that.

Bryan: 15:52

It's okay that people don't talk for a long time. Sometimes God's working on their heart in the unseen and and, and you, as a leader, you, just you just let them be. Yeah, you know this is a great. You know our foxholes, our fires are great places when we're very aware the guy who has to talk too much, we need to shut him down, but at the same time, we need to let people just be and not have to perform and let God work on their heart, because it we are partnering with the Holy Spirit and just because someone doesn't talk doesn't mean God isn't at work. And really I'm opening the door for healing with this.

Bryan: 16:29

And this guy who shared after a year turns out to be one of the most genuine Suns that I've ever met. He, we, we had we host a couple retreats a year as well, weekend events where we go super deep and Four days straight and and they're they're intense and he came and found so much healing and shared so much of the story. He turns out he's he can build barns and he's an athlete like he can play every sport. He's kind of got both Jackson's figure and and it was so fun because we got a partner with God to help, you know, help me get his Mojo, his confidence back and where the state of life you was in. But you know, giving people time just to be is really has been really life-giving and super fun to see that that is a great story.

Mark: 17:14

How often do you meet? How often does wild courage gather around the fire?

Bryan: 17:18

We meet twice a month when just open, anybody can come. And then the leaders we have a leadership team. What happened real quick for the first three years is that the guys who came for like the year and a half, the first year and a half, all got just radically transformed and connected in a brotherhood, and so we meet once a month. The leaders they did the same thing with each other and it was like 12 of us now and and guys, we all were like you, we're in the margins, we're on the weekends and the nights.

Bryan: 17:47

We do this, you know, in the margins of life, between kids and between our wives schedules, and you know, this is, this is not a, this is not a for-profit mega Entity. This is a bootstrap, grassroots, you know God's breath, effort, where everybody has to pitch in it's very kingdom, it's very. And so we get 12 guys and if we're in a business trip Jeremy or Mike or I or Nick, we travel out for work and we'll be gone. We call one of our leaders in who was there for the first year and a half, and those exactly how to run a group, and we say, hey, can you run a group for us tonight? Absolutely, and so we have a bench that's deep, that's wide and that we we hand our hands over to. There's no, we have no hesitation about letting other guys run it who've been transformed through it and catch the catch, the DNA, awesome.

Sarge: 18:37

I love it.

Bryan: 18:38

I love it man.

Sarge: 18:38

That is so, so cool and and I love what you mentioned to about the tension between those who have joy and those who are mourning, and and that's just man. Isn't that so true? Right in the circles we sit in, you know where I mean some of it's just Seasons, circumstances, right, some of its Stage of just heart transformation, but it's it's, it's messy, right. I mean, we're just none of it's just black and white or consistent, it's just that's. That's the beauty of this right, and it's and you might be the one with joy today and mourning, you know, two months from now, right, and so it's just exactly, yeah, it's that, that, that give and take, and you know I love it.

Sarge: 19:24

It's funny. You kind of touched on this already, but I was gonna ask earlier on you know, yeah, as you find hope in each other's stories, and I know these, these fires get started by sharing your stories, right? And and and I was gonna ask the maybe silly or oversimplistic question what do you do once you've shared them, right? But but it, it sounds, sounds like it's just then, it's just the, the ongoing right, it's just the, the ongoing life, and checking in with one another, I imagine, or is it more formally structured than that?

Bryan: 19:55

No, it's, it's, I would say we're. We're far from formal, we're much more, you know, organic. But we and they said we, you know, as we started to share stories, we started, you know, obviously the need was never gonna run out. And Well, we're, guys are coming in and we weren't doing this just because the need was big. It is big.

Bryan: 20:19

We're doing this because a lot of us, like myself, we have a, you know, a story, a heart that wants to see others redeemed, and the father, and wants to see the Beauty from the ashes, the joy, the oil, joy from morning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness. We want, we want the guys in that room to be, you know, trees, you know called trees of righteousness. The Lord gets to plant, redeem and and and, then be a place where we rally around his presence so guys can become whole and love better and and and. That's why we're there, and and. So you know what do we do after we tell our stories? We come back because stories change.

Bryan: 21:00

Your story never stops, it's an ongoing narrative and we believe that God, one encounter in a barn or a church, aware, one encounter with a brother finding hope in your story, is gonna lead you to the feet of Jesus. I'm gonna get you on a journey, you know people, a journey to heal and people always say, oh, hurt people, hurt people. True, but have you ever hung around five healed whole people on a journey?

Bryan: 21:24

Yeah, yes, and you know I'm saying can you hold that tension for one second? Right, yeah, I'm already more healed because I'm talking to you guys. We go, we're going in the right, in the same direction. You're five guys you're meeting with. You know, it's true, who you hang out with, who you become, but when it comes to God, when you're all, there's all kinds of science behind this too. We could get into it if you're in the same room with five guys that are in tune, that are wanting healing, hope and Are integrating a journey with God. Everybody's neuron, by called mere neuron, everybody's neuron, start to fire in the same way. And when you share, when you share in group all the counselors in our, in our, our community will tell you this they will have more breakthrough experiences, more healing, and they will, they will get set free from trauma and shame faster in a group setting, sharing story, than they would Years of one-on-one counseling. It's amazing.

Bryan: 22:24

We have and you know, guys, that I could go a lot of directions, but one of our, one of our counselors Involved is a guy named Steven and, and Steven Ammon uses EMDR and other Advanced counseling techniques. You guys are probably familiar with them, um, you've probably heard about him. He's one of the leading guys in the Western you know Western United States doing this and he uses all kinds of techniques with the mdr to help people heal from trauma and unlock Themselves and and find God and and he comes, he comes to walk her, he's the expert right. He comes to well, courage, fire and his used words like I Don't know any other modality that I've seen that heals people quicker, faster and gets them on the right journey. But sharing their story of the fire, Absolutely praise God.

Bryan: 23:12

Yeah, yeah.

Sarge: 23:14

Yeah, and listen, and he believes in you know the, the, the value and the need for you know techniques like mdr, and and others right to Address trauma, because that is critical as well.

Sarge: 23:27

Right, but he also, who obviously acknowledges the incredible healing power of being an authentic community with others and and you know, and, and part of that I believe, brian, is that you know, when it comes to trauma, and and I'm learning about this now in my own life and having experienced trauma from childhood up until very recently in my life, like in the last month, and and what I'm, what I'm learning and what I've learned we talked about at the other night at victorious together, because we've got another brother experience, that is Is coming into just even understanding that he's experienced trauma.

Sarge: 24:09

Right, because sometimes we don't even see it, we don't know that that was trauma, with to be told, hey, that was trauma, right, but even aside from that, like knowing, okay, I was hurt, but was it trauma? Like you know so, but my point is this it's one of the the challenges, particularly with childhood trauma, for those of us that have experienced childhood trauma, is that we're silenced Right in that trauma. Yeah, you don't have a voice, your voice is taken. You don't have a voice, you don't get to tell your story right and so and that is a critical piece of healing from your trauma it's a critical piece to find a finding closure right and so Exactly what you guys are doing around the fire of telling your story is exactly why I Imagine you know Stephen is saying this is such a critical part of healing from trauma.

Sarge: 25:04

Tonic because you get to tell your story and you have to tell your story in order to heal from trauma. Amen.

Bryan: 25:14

Hey, amen, you know, let me give you one story to illustrate your point from your exactly right. And you know we have a whole bank. Talk about what's next to Katie, share your story, then what's next. And we have a whole when we're at a season now, with some of the guys that come in, that we're we're starting to talk about how, if you'd never talked about your trauma before, you're probably stuck and frozen in those feelings and then those experiences and that can lead to all kinds of addictions etc. And and to share those as great. And these guys are starting to share.

Bryan: 25:46

For we have so many times for guys was to share things for the first time and that they've never shared with anybody. And it's holy and it's sacred and God works there because that's the only way shame, the only shame, can be removed from your life is if you share it with somebody. It just cannot. That's how you get started and if it's just held in tight, it'll never release and and it just does damage like drinking poison to keep the stem of the stuff in. Well, we had a guy Never shared this before. We're and we, you know, as leaders we lead vulnerable. You know, jeremy, our partner has a, has a story, de peeling story from from years, years of addiction, years of. You know you had five DUIs in the matter of a year and and you know the guy who picked them up when the last DUI was back in the day was our other partner, mike. Mike Evenson called the doc and and Jeremy has a huge story of addiction and abuse that he tells publicly to let guys know. You know, sometimes you need to share things vulnerability with a group of trusted advisors, a group of trusted brothers, who has your back, or else it'll just eat you alive.

Bryan: 27:03

Well, one of the guys that came didn't even think he was going to share for months and he shared a very dark, hard story about when he was young you know he's 45, now he's probably 13. And he actually found he didn't think he was all alone, never shared the story, but he actually found one of his family members had passed away from a self-inflicted gunshot and he was the first one to find them and dark. Well, he decided to share that for the first time in his life around a fire in M and Idaho and out in here in Boise area and it was one of the. It was so deep, holy, held, tension and he shared that and we there was not a dry eye in the room and as leaders, we just hold the tension. And I was just praying, like God, what do we do with this man's heart? It's exposed, it's open trauma and sometimes, of you know, leading these things and getting really heavy like that. You're like, just like God, I need you to show up right now. I mean right now.

Bryan: 28:11

Well, in that meeting this happens all the time now in that meeting there's another man who raised his hand. I didn't understand anything. He says, brother, me too, wow, and we're like what? And we just we're, we're just tears of screaming down most of the guys' faces in real life. And the other man across the fire says he shared, he tried to share how he also had found a family member who had taken their own life. And those guys got together and from that moment on, obviously exchanged numbers and became support for each other and some of the darkest trauma that they that I dealt with.

Bryan: 28:50

But my point being and we had to honor as leaders, to sit there and hold tension for God to work, we just got out of the way. Yeah, one of the things we say is right, jesus, you're, you're the healer, father, you, you, you father your son. We just shared some really heavy stuff. Get in here and and and do your thing, because we're we're not. We have a group of licensed counselors and professionals. We send folks to, of course, but we're not licensed professionals. We hold tension for Jesus to work. That's that's our job. Amen, yeah, so that's, you know, guys, that's what happens. That kind of stuff happens. Yeah, well, you know, yeah, that kind of stuff happens.

Sarge: 29:28

yeah, it's no it's, it's beautiful because you know it's.

Sarge: 29:32

It's not just telling your story, but what you just, the story you just shared, right, also reflects, just it's. It's. You know, in that trauma I'm all alone, right, nobody. You know I'm unseen, nobody can hear me, and I'm the only one. This has happened to, right, and the story you just told I then, you know, addressed all three of those. You're not alone, you're seen and you're okay, right, and we hear. We hear you and there's no judgment. You know you're loved, you're seen, and so that that you know that piece not just telling the story, but Mark and I talk about this all the time, right, that as we do tell our stories, it's, it's. There's no judgment, you're just being heard, you're seen, right and and there's compassion I'm so sorry that happened to you right, and you are loved, You're not alone, that is. That's not who you are right.

Mark: 30:30

And how I mean. Oh my goodness, it's like a vitamin, right now we know right, that you, you, that if you have that in your life, on top of all the things you were just talking about, I'm imagining those men sitting around the fire with Brian and the hurdle that they had to overcome the first one, I think, is the safety hurdle. Yeah Right, am I safe enough here? Tell that story, because you know, guys, a little bit of one-upmanship, you know a little bit.

Mark: 31:03

oh, I got, I got one of those stories, but the one that he's talking about, you know, finding someone who is who's committed suicide, I mean that, and and so I think one of the common threads, Brian, between Victoria's together band of brothers, Mark, men for Christ, wild at heart, wild courage, is men feeling safe in an environment that we built for them, yes, and it's and it's also the fear of, if I share this, what else is this going to bring up?

Sarge: 31:30

Because I've had this stuff down there for so long that I'm not sure I want to uproot it, because then it's just going to be this waterfall, this. You know the dam is broken and I don't want to feel all that. So it's both. Right, it's the it's. Am I safe to do this from you know, free from judgment, but then it's also man, this doesn't feel good. Let me just tamp it back down because I don't want to see what's on the other side of this.

Mark: 31:59

Our friend Justin Kemp would call it the when then lie.

Sarge: 32:02

Yeah, yeah exactly.

Mark: 32:03

When this happens, then I'll tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So how do you?

Sarge: 32:09

God, right, exactly yeah. When am I going to feel safe enough? Or ready enough, right Then?

Mark: 32:15

Yeah, yeah. Or in a year in one guy's case, right Then.

Sarge: 32:18

I'll do it.

Mark: 32:18

Oh, my goodness so so, brian, I want to take a little left turn and just ask about the men that are coming to wild courage fires. Are they generally from?

Sarge: 32:29

I mean, you're, you're out in Idaho, so you're rural where, where the six hour drive is like going to the supermarket.

Mark: 32:36

Are they coming from the same church environment Is is. How are these men connected other than geographically, if at all?

Bryan: 32:44

Yes, I'm glad you asked. That's a great question. Our first year we started with three reformed evangelical former mega church attendees. Evangelical Christians is a big population of Latter-day Saints out here Mormons. So we have a couple Mormons that come, we have a Baptist and we have three agnostics total non-believers, and so sounds like the beginning of a joke.

Sarge: 33:16

It sounds like the beginning.

Bryan: 33:21

Yeah, no, but. And we, and at first we thought, oh man, this is going to be weird, how do how to? Oh, and then is that we have a couple homosexuals, we have a couple addicts, and I think there's some prostitution in there as well, and these guys all come over and over and over, and and at first we thought, who, what Lord? This doesn't look like, this doesn't look like Sunday.

Sarge: 33:52

Yeah, exactly, I love it.

Bryan: 33:55

Right and we're like yeah, but this looks like the kingdom, yeah, and that's beautiful.

Bryan: 34:04

And so I'm getting. I'm a little bit emotional because I didn't. I understood the kingdom more when a brother who had same sex addiction comes back and back because it's a place where he felt love, accepted and not judged by the church, by the pastor who's going to tell him he's going to go to hell. But he but he gets to share a story and a struggle and he finds hope, healing and and comfort and care for his soul. That was traumatized and he was a little boy. And so you say, hey, where do these guys come from? They come from all over.

Bryan: 34:48

My buddy, jeremy Morris, co-founder of this baby too, runs a great podcast, the Well Courage Life. You know it's on all the platforms and it's called the Well Courage Podcast and he shares his story volumbly and he's got a story that's more trauma in it than anybody that I know and because of that, guys use that trauma to form it into some of the greatest weapons of his story. We always say, hey, jeremy, you know you really weaponized compassion, because you can have compassion for anybody. And so because of that podcast he has all kinds of cool people on there in the horse world Buck Brenneman, and famous, non-famous, but people that have gone down the journey that hold the same values. We have some core values in Well, courage, that and these guys come and are they from the same church? Yes, we have some local churches here that feed guys in for sure, but it's not just the church you know you sat in front of. I was able to articulate this the other day talking to a guy named Greg Lindsay at a pastoral discovery church down in Cloudhouse Springs good friend of mine, coming out with a book, by the way and he says you know, what has happened in the big mega churches over the last 20 years is we sat there and got great programs and read our Bibles and have a great scripture memorization programs and Bible camps and conferences and weekend hoopla's and but a lot of times the guys in front haven't been transformed and when things go sideways, you know we get disappointed. Is there a fair? Is there a controversy? Is there something to divide the church again?

Bryan: 36:34

And you go through a tough time and you know people are looking for people in front of them that have been transformed, for like real, and they walk with God and they journey and they can share their story. And you know the words authentic and organic are probably used way too much. But you know guys that not only know their story but they're not stuck in it. You know, like the guy I was talking about who suffered from same sex addiction, like he's not stuck in a story. Newman, he's sick, he's working on it, he's heeling, he's on his way. Doesn't mean he's not tempted, doesn't mean the Attica doesn't fall once a while and to have a shot of alcohol, but he's heeling, he's putting together a walk with God.

Bryan: 37:21

That's not done, that's not, it's always under construction. And so the guys that come to Walker their church heard there may not be the polished guys on Sundays. Actually some of them are. They're a diverse group of guys who are, who are, who want people, who are transformed in front of them, that are transformed Me. They aren't done yet, that are under construction, that are humble enough to know that they they never going to get there. But they, but every but the the point is the journey to walk with God become integrated in whole.

Mark: 37:57

Got it. Thank you, that's awesome. Um, just appreciate your candor and how how you look at this, just getting a feeling not knowing you, but also getting a feel that we're kindred spirits in and how we're approaching this Just quickly. Why do you think men are attracted? I don't want to take this for granted. I think I know the answer, but I want to hear your version. Why do you think men in your community are attracted to wild courage? What is the catalyst?

Bryan: 38:27

Hmm, well, I think, on the most simplest, raw form. You guys kind of mentioned some of these things. Um, well, tell it like this we, before every meeting, we, we go over core values. We say, guys, if you're going to come in this bar and sit in this space, we have to operate from core values. And those core values, quickly, are hope, humility, your story, redemption and honor. Hope, humility, story, redemption and honor. And we say, guys, if you can tell your story in humility, we know there's a door to authentic relationship there. Um, and we believe in the Redeemer. There's a kingdom with a king.

Bryan: 39:13

It's not just AA, it's not just a program, but there's actually Jesus who's come for you, who's waiting, who's chose you, who sees you, who hears you, who never leaves you, who gets in the ditch with you, and he's, he's there for you. And you have to get to honor each other above yourself as all kinds of hope that can be found in that. And when you set a foundation, every, every meeting we go over these in different ways forms every single meeting. And it was that, guys, if you're going to preach, you know it's going to be short lived, but if you operate as core values and you share your story. There's going to go all kinds of hope, and so guys get in there, and so we give them permission, and then Jeremy or I or Michael, share. We're all notably where we're at during the season. You know something that, something that that hurts right now? Um, obviously we you know whether that's if we're struggling in our, in our, in our marriage, if things aren't going sideways. We're just real about it and we share good things, healing things, places that are, that are healed, that are going great right. And then we get guys permission.

Bryan: 40:23

Guys are attracted to wildcurs because they have permission to share shit and crap that they haven't shared before and to share victory. They have safety, and now, if there are a few meetings, they have brotherhood. They have a guy who's probably gone through something similar that he can learn from or, at the same time, he's going to be a mentor because he's further along in his journey, um, than the next guy who needs a little hope. So you have a place to receive, you have a place to give, you have a place to show up and be silent and just sit there if you want. And here's the key, though Jesus is waiting when we walk in that bar. He's ready to heal, but you just not a place. It's a holy place. It's filled with his presence, it's prayed for, fought for and word for Prior to the meetings and it's where we go to experience God. That's, that's what guys are attracted to. We know that feeling.

Mark: 41:26

Well, you know what we've talked about. A lot of fun stuff relative to the groups, right yeah, these communities, authentic communities that we're building. But, brian, I'd love to ask you a last question that's very focused on you and that is just specifically what are you hearing from God In this and in your life, your family, your work? You know, just as as your life is evolving, as you look to the the next days and months and weeks of your life, what's God, what's God saying to you, and and how's that going to impact other men in your community?

Bryan: 41:59

That's a great question. I'm gonna write that down and use it.

Mark: 42:07

Give you a chance that I don't mean to put you on the spot, but I want to at the same time, because this is personal. These relationships with other men are Only valuable in that we have a personal and focused, committed relationship of a surrendered relationship With our Lord and Savior.

Sarge: 42:25

Yes, it's not a program. It's not programmatic. This is life.

Bryan: 42:30

What comes up from my heart, which I haven't quite articulated yet, is that we can do really. We can do really a lot, a lot of things for God. We can create ten foxholes in ten different states and Walker just done a bunch of fires and I think we have I don't know 15, 20 states. We we've gone wallet heart that you know the big ministry out there in Colorado. It's our great partners, morgan and John that we've give away their books and we go on podcast to promote fires and support guys with fires and they're they're getting behind the fire movement and foxhole movement. You know they're interchangeable and you can start be all over the world. You can, you can. You know. You said you can Do these things and follow and jets and be really cool and famous and do a lot of things for God, all good things. And you can look, you can lose the ones that matter the most and what comes up in what God's doing is. The word from me this year was simplify and cut out some of the doing and and focus on more of the being and becoming and double down on the ones who matter the most my wife, jenny, who is Amazing, beautiful, the love of my life high school sweetheart. She was a cheerleader For the high school head captain. The cheerleading team and I was captain of football team, went to the same high school with Mary since 1999 you can do the math so proud of that. I have two boys, 16 and 19, and and then I got a spear. I got, I got my close ones, my three, my two, my three and my four, guy and guys. Just then double down on the ones that matter the most and Be way more about your being and becoming and when I say that, am I loving the ones that matter most, better, more pure, in an integrated way, walking with God in it now than I did ten years ago or 20 years ago? You know, I Think when we think about these things, I think as I look ahead Ten years, I think, man, who do I want to be and what do I want to be proud of? And there's nothing to do with money's stature, power and Everything to do with the ones who matter the most and my walk with God and I walk with God one and what one, the ones who matter the most too and so that really comes up is like what am I? I mean, if I do a bunch of, we start a bunch more fires and a guy's bunch of guys. They feel great, that's awesome. But if I'm wallowing, then in my relationships are fractured with my family and, if I can, here's a real deep one.

Bryan: 45:16

As you guys know, you can be at a foxhole with with four dudes, five dudes, and and it can be intimate. You know about each other's struggles, you know each other's wins and also there's some soul ties that can form that are good most of the time, but we got to be careful that they don't replace Our healthy bonds with our wives and our kids and the ones who once, who have been placed in our care. Wow, you steward to lead. And so no one talks about this much, although Jeremy and Mike and I do, because we seem to happen. But you know, sometimes you start coming these groups and it didn't see, it's so deep. Yeah, that that and it's great.

Bryan: 46:02

But they can replace where we're supposed to, the hard parts, where we're supposed to. You know they don't. Those guys don't go to Christmas dinner with us. Most of the time they don't stay the night, they don't. They're not with us when shit breaks bad. Yeah, they are. Some of them are, but you know your first line of this. Who's your first line of defense? My wife and my kids. Yep, and, and because of that it's it's hard work to have those healthy bonds and to keep those Strong and to keep those invested in and where we need to be. So God does really personally simplify, invest time, energy and growth into. We got a better lover husband, father and son to the most high guy to invest in. The ones that matter most get smaller. Actually, as fires get bigger, we get smaller, we get smaller, and it starts at home because those the ones that matter most. I mean I'm never gonna go start ten fires and then lose my family on the way. It would be tragedy and it's the hypocrisy.

Bryan: 47:04

That's what's coming up.

Sarge: 47:06

That is Amazing, like I. You know, I don't want to just be like, oh that's great, thanks for Sharon, because there's there's so much there that you just said that you know we don't have time to unpack, but there's, there are some very Deep and wise nuggets right there exact word. I was you just you know, from from the getting smaller and Simplifying, which is a little bit countercultural, just a little right yeah you know to.

Sarge: 47:43

You know the, the intimacy that's developed. You're right, like I don't hear that talked about very much, that the intimacy that we enjoy and that is being developed in these groups, that the potential danger in that is that you know we don't take it with us. You know we don't. It's not a catalyst but but rather a repository, right? Yeah, well, that that's an interesting, that's a whole nother podcast, right, my goodness? Just to summarize, double down on the relationships that matter most. Amen be more about your being and becoming. Right, and I'll just finish that sentence for myself, then, then my producing and man, that those, those are just some incredibly wise words and and and some nuggets that I didn't want to just gloss over, glaze over quickly. So thank you for sharing all that we are very well my pleasure yeah very blessed to have you here.

Mark: 48:45

We're very thankful that you took some time out to do this. We know you got to get on a plane tomorrow and and do good things with your family, which is appropriate, yeah, and what you said your priorities are. We want to send you off with fond wishes for your 25th anniversary, which sounds like it's coming up this year with Jenny. Yes, yeah, yeah, it is, brian. God bless you. Thank you very, very much for joining us. We'll look forward to talking to you again soon, and thanks for being part of our foxhole for a short time guys, thanks so much.

Bryan: 49:14

It's been an honor and many blessings your way.

Mark: 49:18

Keep becoming and, yeah, thank you been an honor give our best to Jeremy and Mike and the rest of your brothers. Thank, yes, thank you.

Bryan: 49:27

Yeah, and thank you guys.

Sarge: 49:28

And I just want to say so, if you know, if you guys want to check out wild courage, just man, if you just Google Brian bird and wild courage, you'll find all kinds of things, because these guys are really doing some awesome stuff as they join the Lord at work. But a couple of those check out the podcast. If you go to wild courageorg, check out the podcast. For sure it is awesome. It just love, love what's happening there. And, and you know if, if you're looking to Start a fire, you know these are some guys that can help and, of course, mark and I are always willing to help you. So drop us a line or or go to the wild courage site and say how I'm interested in starting a fire and they can provide some Support and resources for you. And then those retreats, you know, check it out. There's lots of those mark and I are always talking about.

Sarge: 50:13

But so so, whether it's wild courage or or another, maybe that's the best place to start. So all I have to say is do something. Do something right, don't stay in the dark, amen. Don't isolate. We need each other, and there is beauty From the ashes, beauty from the brokenness, and so we thank you for listening to another episode of the Foxhole Symphony Podcast. And we appreciate you, we love you and you're not alone. Peace, peace.

Chris: 50:43

Three evangelical Christians, two Mormons, a Baptist, three agnostics, two homosexuals and a prostitute shows up to a barn. Nope, it's not the beginning of a great joke. It's a place where men show up to put relationships first, a Place where their stories are told and heard without judgment. It's a place where God shows up and meets each and every one of them right where they are, where he's invited into their brokenness and brings hope and healing and transformation that only he can do. It's also a place where they celebrate victory and where every man is valued as a child of God. Their core values are simple Hope, humility, your story, redemption and honor. And their rules are even simpler no preach, no teach, no advice unless you're asked.

Chris: 51:37

I checked them out already at the wild courage that life. I recommend you do the same. Are you ready to start a fire, lord? Please continue to use this podcast to impact the lives of all who listen. I ask that you would bring hope and healing to each and every one of them, lord. Meet them right where they are and reveal yourself to them like only you can do. In the mighty name of Jesus, amen.

Sarge: 52:03

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