Finishing Well and Finding Peace in Unforeseen Transitions

Embarking on a journey of discovery and spiritual growth, Sarge and Mark delve into the transformational power of authenticity and community in our latest Foxhole Symphony conversation. Through the lens of their personal testament to God's faithfulness and the journey of "embracing solitude," they explore how focused prayer can serve as a beacon during life's tumultuous seasons. Reflecting on the past year's unexpected changes, reminiscent of unusual weather patterns, Sarge and Mark discuss the growth within their community and the spiritual fortitude that parallels it.

Surrender isn't just a word; it's a state of being that can revolutionize our relationships. Sarge opens up about becoming a catalyst for change, finding that sweet spot of energy and enthusiasm, tempered by a surrender that breeds peace. "Chiseled" emerged as Mark's new mantra for the year, symbolizing not only a commitment to physical health but also the sculpting of character. They navigate the importance of concluding life's chapters with intention, whether in a career, a relationship, or a year, emphasizing the pursuit of wholeness and flourishing.

In their heart-to-heart, Sarge and Mark confront the complexities of life's endings and how a heart surrendered to God can navigate these waters with wisdom and grace. The conversation turns towards the unveiling of our true selves, a process likened to the chiseling hand of God, and the peace that follows. Wrapping up, they invite listeners to share their own stories, as we rally around embracing change and setting our sights on what truly matters in the coming year.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Welcome to Foxhole Symphony, a podcast about the transformational value of men in authentic community.

Speaker 2: 0:14

And our Foxhole men are equipped to build relationships that foster belonging, accountability and growth.

Speaker 1: 0:20

Stop believing the lie that you can thrive in isolation and instead join us on the journey for broken to whole.

Speaker 3: 0:27

Hello everyone. They call me the maestro and we are back in the Foxhole where we actively pursue belonging, accountability and growth through authentic relationships. No masks, no agendas, just iron, sharpening iron. Today, mark and Steve are in the Foxhole and they are tackling some challenging stuff, but I wouldn't expect anything less from them Yielded hearts and minds, transparent and authentic. I love the smell of victory in the Foxhole. Open your favorite notes app and settle in. Here we go.

Speaker 1: 1:01

Hey, welcome back to the Foxhole Symphony podcast. Here I am, mark Vesper, with my good friend and co-host.

Speaker 2: 1:08

I'm Sarge. Well, listen, it was a tough finish to 2023. I mean a lot of illness and challenges Wicked In both our lives and the lives of those around us and closest to us. Just a tough, tough finish.

Speaker 1: 1:30

Yeah, and it's not even like we have. The weather's weird. There's just some things out of place, it seems. I don't know if that makes any sense at all, but the days are like 40s, 50s. It's just December, january, it's supposed to be cold and I'd like to have a little snow in the forecast. Oh gosh, here we go. Really, come on, you were running to Florida, well, glad you brought that up.

Speaker 2: 1:57

Okay, it's a good segue because and we've talked about, you know my time in Florida in 2023, but really it speaks to you know my word, my phrase for the year in 2023, which was embrace solitude, which we've talked a lot about.

Speaker 1: 2:13

You and I have.

Speaker 2: 2:14

yeah, yeah, and I think we did. We touched on it on a couple of the episodes we did, and so I'm deeply thankful. You know it's funny. For years I've had people in my life you know whether it's Mo or Drew or others say like, oh, you know what's your word for the year. And then you know you picked up on it what's your word for the year?

Speaker 1: 2:35

I'm like that's so dumb. Right, you did. What do you mean? You've been?

Speaker 2: 2:37

anti-words. I don't need a word for the. What do you mean? That's why we gave you a sentence. What do you mean? What do you mean? Yeah, and you know. Now, on the other side of that, I'm like, oh my goodness, like to have that singular prayer focus, that singular, you know, really prayer focus for me, you know it's like Lord, I like I need you. I kid this is, this is something I can't do, this is someone I can. You know, only you can, can, can, do this. And he did, he did. I've experienced that. I'm now on the other side of that. I'm like, okay, here we go, what's my new word? And now I'm. Now I'm asking other people, I'm the annoying person saying what's your word for the year? You have a word. People are like that's stupid. I'm like I know, but let me tell you a story.

Speaker 1: 3:23

Yeah, here's why it's a little less stupid than you think.

Speaker 2: 3:28

So. So I have a word and I I'm sure you have a word for 2024.

Speaker 1: 3:32

I'm going to have one, if not only for this episode of this great podcast, but I'm also just going to use it as part of the, the food, the fodder that feeds me as I go through another year with God.

Speaker 2: 3:44

Yeah, so you know, 2023 wrapped up in a challenging way, you know, you know, I know that we, we finished well. I believe that we did, and really God just did a lot. I mean, god just did a lot in our hearts and our lives as we reflected on, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 4:02

Yeah, there, there are so many God sightings and I don't. You know we're not doing a recap episode specifically, but I will. I need to say a couple of things Since you brought it up. First of all, there were so many God sightings in our lives I can tell you about, for me personally, the evolution of the band of brothers, the inception of the victorious together men's group, Also the podcast and some of the guests we've had and different things we've talked about. Just my walk, we're kind of refinding church, the building. You know, for Maria and I.

Speaker 1: 4:42

This year I've got multiple episodes in my head about all the fun things and good things and things that God did for me in my weakness to say, Mark, I'm here, Mark, I'm with you. Yes, Mark, I'll never leave you. Mark, it's true, what you, what you've been reading and dedicating yourself to, is true. I am a faithful God, so I'm. I'm joyful for that. I'm also joyful that people will never understand here on this podcast I don't think I could do a good enough job describing how challenging it was for you to embrace solitude, and I said that in our last episode I gave you props for Enkudos to say good job. I mean, I remember and I know you well enough to say I know that that was not a word picked lightly or chosen because you couldn't think of what else to do.

Speaker 2: 5:35

There was a deep desire and need in your life that really came from him. I mean, really, it came from God. It was spoken to me and over me by a handful of people and as well as through, you know, devotion and prayer time, and so, yeah, it didn't. It wasn't just sort of this, like you know, out of thin air, let me just pick something, but it definitely. God definitely brought it to the forefront.

Speaker 1: 5:59

Yeah, and, and I love, my role in your life is often, and ours together is often covering accountability. Yeah, and it's not just hey. Have you prayed?

Speaker 1: 6:12

You know not that kind of you know, our accountability is in life. Am I watching you live that out Right? And if I wasn't, we would talk about it right and in different ways, but it's some of the those moments, those experience we share together, the time that we've spent together in these conversations, are so valuable. Our friendship is deepened, I feel my love for you has increased and there's just been a good, a good rhythm to that in the midst of all the messiness. Yeah, but that in that short recap and confirmation of we are looking at words to help us focus on what we feel God is calling us to, and that's emotionally, spiritually, physically, nutritionally, whatever. You know, in many ways those are family relationships, church life relationships, friendships that are growing no matter where we are. Physically. Yeah, this connection that God has made in us is beautiful, it is strong, it is thriving and, to use our friend Brian Shroth's favorite word, it's rich. It's rich, baby, yeah, Rich. Okay. I'll stop there and let you go back to your word discussion no that's.

Speaker 2: 7:27

That's perfect. So I have a word for the year. It's funny you mentioned yours from last year, which hadn't occurred to me, but mine is. It's a continuation of embracing solitude. For me, embracing solitude in 2023 was sort of finding and creating the time and space to do that. Now, coming off of that, having having done that and even longing for more of that, now it's about fully embracing and allowing the result of that to take root in my heart and carry me through every minute of the day. So it's sort of this, this continuation, and and it just occurred to me that that I need to be surrendered Past tense, past tense, surrendered.

Speaker 2: 8:15

Well, the difference is like, too, surrender is a verb right. It's sort of this that's me, that's my active surrender, the doing right For me. I don't want to. It's actually the opposite. It's a state for me, it's a state of being. I'm actually, by being surrendered, I'm actually removing the need for me to even surrender it. It's God doing it, god's going to do it and allow me, enable me, give me what I need to be surrendered. I love it To everything, circumstances, his will, just knowing, you know, believing so much in His kingship and Lordship over my life that there's nothing I need to control.

Speaker 2: 9:00

Whew, that's a big word, it's a tall order it is, but not too big for God, and so I'm excited. I'm excited about that and I'm excited because I know going into 2023, how impossible it seemed for me to embrace solitude and now to long for that and just love that. I'm so excited to see how, how on earth, he does this in me and my heart in 2024. But I know that he will.

Speaker 1: 9:30

Wow, okay. So I'm going to, I'm going to give you a second to think about it. I'm going to ask you to peel that onion back on surrendered Okay, and what that looks like for the men in your life Okay, something that pertains. But I want to tell you that the reason I pretty confident surrender was my word is that at this time last year Maria and I were dealing with some pretty serious issues with my son, grant, and I knew that the only way that I could stay sane in that time was to surrender Him to God and had been praying for and you know my prayer there is simple it's God, please put people in Grant's life and I do this for all my kids but put people in their lives that will direct them towards you. Tell them, you know, stop on your own path that the path with God is paved with friendships, with authentic community, with people you trust, and you've got to start relationships to see who you trust.

Speaker 1: 10:26

So I spent the entire year trying to figure out what that really meant, and the best I could describe it was an active surrender for Grant, and I'm not going to go into that whole story again except to say that that, for me, has been the biggest victory is trying to settle with that, to be surrendered with Him and trust God's timing. There I have to believe, I desperately want to believe, that God will grab His heart More than all the other hearts. I know that need grabbed. That's the one for me and I know know for Rhea as well. So, with that said, that was my my surrendering story and I'm sure I could go back to years you know 26 podcasts and find little nuggets of where I mentioned that before.

Speaker 1: 11:16

Oh, yeah, for you in being surrendered. As you look ahead into the coming year, tell me what you're thinking about in terms of relationships.

Speaker 2: 11:25

Well, it's interesting you ask that because that is in large part where I see this playing out, and you know, you know me. And it's interesting because I don't want to ignore my God given giftedness, which is to be a catalyst, and with that comes a lot of energy and enthusiasm and emotion, and you know, I bring all of that with me wherever I go, right, for better or worse, and so in a very good way, most of the time, yes and so, but ironically, you know, I guess maybe it's the surrendered part of it. What I see in that is bringing peace and steadiness. You know exactly what you mentioned, like surrendering to the circumstances, right, like surrendering, and and so you know, as a catalyst I can often be a fixer, right, it causes me to maybe not be a great listener, which is part of my mission, to listen intently and respond compassionately. And so part of this, being wholly surrendered, will allow me to not only be at peace myself amidst any circumstances, but to bring that to others, mostly those who I'm closest with, right Into other, into their circumstances and their situations and into those, those relationships, so relationally I'll have the ability to be, to bring that which I think is just part of bringing a piece of God into that, that relationship which again doesn't come naturally to me.

Speaker 2: 13:02

And so I think what you know, and I have matured over the years of you know, of course, you know my, my enthusiasm and energy, and all of that is, you know, it's softened, it's, it's got the edges of softened and all of that in a good way. But you know, perhaps this is the other side of the coin, Maybe it's the other side of the, the curse of being a catalyst. Right, in other words, I can do both, I can be both, I can both be a catalyst and full of energy and enthusiasm. And you know, yeah, you know radically agile and all of these things, and also be wholly surrendered, and therein lies the work of God.

Speaker 2: 13:50

You know what does it look like to not be either or, but to be fully both?

Speaker 1: 13:56

So you've, you have put a, a gigantic mark on your chest for the enemy? Yes, Right, yes, and you and.

Speaker 2: 14:05

I know how this worked.

Speaker 1: 14:07

Well, it's just real, let's, let's it's not scary like horror movie scary no, it's scary like you know what's coming. Yeah, and we we've we've witnessed it, We've watched each other in your space.

Speaker 2: 14:20

Yeah, it's like praying for patience and you're not a doctor.

Speaker 1: 14:24

Yikes, right, right, okay, wow, that's pretty awesome. Thanks, holy both.

Speaker 2: 14:31

I'm excited. I'm excited to see you.

Speaker 1: 14:33

All right, let me give you a little tidbit, a nugget, of where my head went when, when we were talking about this particular episode and I really wasn't thinking of words for the year. But I think I've got a good tie in. I have been thinking for this month since I got back from India probably three weeks now about what ending well looks like for me for this year, and it's just part of my process Having a lifelong sales guy. There's things you finish doing at the end of the year and you've got to restart. You've got to ignite, accelerate heading into the new year. Right, and I do. I have for 50 years, figured, figured out how to do that. Well, I'm turning 65 in six weeks and have some things to look forward to, both from professionally and personally in my life.

Speaker 1: 15:20

But ending well has always been important to me, to to the extent and need I have to evangelize to other people and say it's starting is equally as important as ending. The way you exit and the way you, the integrity honor that you use, the enthusiasm that you use, the energy that you have when you're starting something exciting and new could be a year, could be a job, could be a ministry, could be a new relationship, could be any number of things, but I've always wanted to be more artful, you know, and present when it comes to finishing things well, and without even knowing it sometimes. So what I do usually is make a list Right how do I end? Well? And several devotionals recently especially today, as you witnessed, because we communicate with our friends in V2G about that was I realize that I have been focused on my mess, my sins, my challenges, my mountains to climb, things like that, and that awareness is great. I mean, I need that awareness in order to enact change in my life.

Speaker 1: 16:39

But I'm over the edge. I have not been spending quality time in a thankful, humble pose of look at all the good things that are going on in my life and have in this year. So ending this year well is going to require me to take off some layers, and that quickly takes me into my friends from the skit guys and my favorite skit of theirs God's chisel. And so my word for this year is chiseled. Chiseled because it applies to many parts of my life. First of all, I am going to spend my 65th year in the best shape of my life. Now, I happen to say that to myself every year is that I'm going to continue on with a priority to stay in shape.

Speaker 2: 17:23

I will not be chiseled but yes, you will stop that self talk right now. You already are.

Speaker 1: 17:29

Thanks, I will continue to make that a priority in my life. I see that I still can handle the pain of weightlifting and the insanity of the hamster wheel on the treadmill and walking the dog every morning for a few miles and those things I use to move and that help me physically. So, check, I'm going to invest in that again. I've made that decision. But the chiseling I'm really talking about, and what they talk about in there, is that I have allowed I have myself piled things on, but I've allowed the world and other people to tell me who I am to to influence my life's decisions, and I'm a simple guy. I need to break it down to its basics. I try to break life down to its basics so I can understand them and I can act on them. And my identity in Christ is skewed, it's messed up, it's cloudy because of everything piled on. So I am going to be reminding myself and asking you to help chisel me now, like as I head into, uh, into the new year and as the new year progresses, to not allow those, those things and we know what they are, they're the constant sins, they're the things I've carried with me for years. Yeah, well, there's. I need to act like a new creation. I need to act like the masterpiece that he made. That's what the skit talks about. The Bible's really clear about how God made me. What's changed is me, yeah, and, and the world has its share. So chiseled is my word.

Speaker 1: 19:07

Ending this year well, and ending anything I'm doing with the same integrity that I start them with, and I'm thinking about band of brothers. I don't know where that's headed, but based on the attendance for band of brothers meetings in season 18, I'd say it's waning interest from the, the core men's group that were part of that and have been part of that faithfully for so long. I'm still connected to those men, but it's a different type of connection and I need to. If that's ending at the end of this season in June 24, I need to do that well, not not be belligerent, not be, oh, yeah, all the things I can imagine doing as a something that has been part of my and my family's life for 18 years, yeah. So if it's not ending, hallelujah, but if it is, I want to do it. Well, I need to chisel off some crap in order to do that, and I need help doing it, yeah, so, wow.

Speaker 2: 20:08

So that's, that's, that's pretty good, that's a lot, yeah, and I just, I'm listening to you, you know the, the, the idea of finishing well, Um, I mean so many things come to mind, but I'm I'm thinking about my word as well. And just surrendered and how you know, being surrendered, having a surrendered heart, posture, you know, toward things that come to an end, um are so closely tied together.

Speaker 1: 20:37

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:38

Because you know yeah to to approach those with um. Yeah, I mean what does a surrendered heart posture look like? It's humility, it's, you know, an openness, it's a um, it's a willingness and even a desire to see everybody win. You know um. You know to to desire for healthy closure. You know possibly painful, painful conversations, right, engaging that well with a, with a care toward others. I mean all of these things you know soon as as it's, you know, sort of a self selfish perspective. You know it's about me and mine. All of that's out the window, absolutely Right, and those are the things that would keep me from being surrendered.

Speaker 1: 21:27

Right. It's where the truth and love isn't just a catchy phrase. Right.

Speaker 2: 21:31

And you know what's underneath all of that. You know you've got, you've got. I mean there's a lot of fear. I mean there's a lot of huge foundation of fear under. You know, these examples that we're bringing up, these things are even like finishing Bob right, like well, what, what happens? If you know, if these people have nowhere to go, or if you know what's my responsibility here and I think those are good questions we should be asking but, you know, not needing to control those outcomes because they're not ours to control is also a healthy perspective, and so it's it's, you know, ask the questions through the lens of you know, what might God do here and what's his, what's his will in all this, not needing to play God in it or to be God, you know, and and have my own, you know, needs served in it, right? So, like I mean, there's just an enormous amount of dying the self that that there's being, it's, yes, it's chiseled, it's surrendered, it's dead Right, and, and, and I'm thinking of of a couple of things.

Speaker 1: 22:37

This is more than my brain can probably handle, but Dallas Jenkins from the chosen constantly reminds us that we're not responsible. The Bible doesn't call us to feed the 5,000. Yeah, it does call us to bring our loaves and fishes every single day.

Speaker 2: 22:52

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 22:52

And that's that's surrender. It's where you know ending well is living out the truth that certain things are my responsibility, but they're all gods. Every one of them is God. There's just certain ones he, he, I'm involved in versus yours, right.

Speaker 1: 23:08

You you've got your endings, I've got mine and the questions you're asking about. You just mouthed the words, exactly what Maria said to me the first time I talked to her about the new season of Bob in September of 23. When I said, what if nobody comes? I've said that before. Sure, she's like well, what happens if one guy what, what, what do you do? What, what, what if somebody needs some place to go? What? What if Sarge, 18 years later, comes back to the door and I can own that pretty fast.

Speaker 2: 23:41

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 23:41

I can be like all right, all right, I'll keep doing it. It's not mine Now, Bob isn't mine. The band of brothers has never been marks no, If there's no other truth about it.

Speaker 2: 23:52

it was for a bunch of years, that's my sin.

Speaker 1: 23:56

You can't have it. Yeah, pride is a terrible thing, isn't it? Only because you've talked about it enough, oh Lord, and I praise God for lifting me out of that Amen and not bringing an abacus to count how many people were coming in my door, being so proud of myself as I dislocated my shoulder, patting myself on the back. Look God, 18 people are and I, wonderful. Look what I did. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 24:23

Yeah, so, yeah, I mean ending. Well, you know it's funny, right, like you know, just coming off of this year and you know starting a new one and thinking about ending it well, already, right, and what's it going to take. You know what's it going to take to end 2024 well, and whatever endings you know might come, you know in within there, you know, and I think of people who are, you know, saying goodbye to loved ones. You know that are, you know moments or days from, from passing, or you know again leaving jobs or career changes, or you know geographic moves, or you know, against ends of seasons, of hosting, you know, groups of people or looking at ministry left us, yeah, or who else is?

Speaker 2: 25:16

going to leave me Right. I mean, you know ministry endings, I think thinking over the years of you know, you know a number of people leaving, you know pastoral roles or coming off the mission field and having, you know, just sometimes crippling guilt, like that's. It's heavy stuff and and requires an enormous amount of prayer and discernment and wisdom. And then, in addition to that, you know, to do that well and in a healthy way requires so much more.

Speaker 1: 25:56

I was reminded yesterday in a devotional that it's important to note your endings and how you manage them now. So a year from now, at the end of 24, you can look at progress that you've made, because I tend to forget. I just shut the door on that. I need to move on, because I'm a checkbox guy and right, there's a lot more crap to get done. I'm, you know, I'm trying to release that, and being living a surrendered life requires even different words to come out of my mouth.

Speaker 1: 26:28

Yeah, right, because as much as we take credit for being, you know, having a bias for action, sometimes that action needs to be metered right and controlled, yeah, and hopefully by a God who says I want you heading in this direction, keep the same energy and inertia, but turn pivot. And you know how I feel about that, about being honest. So I'm going to journal and I've got some notes just started in my, my trusty iPhone notes app and just helping me close some doors and then be able to look at those as the year goes on, but especially in December of 24, and how I manage them. I think that could be really valuable.

Speaker 2: 27:06

Yeah, and then there's, you know there's the desire to end well, and then there's there's the others that are involved. Right, and you know, sometimes the others won't allow that.

Speaker 2: 27:17

No, but, it's not yours Exactly. So you know, I guess that the reason I bring that up is, you know, there can be a sense of anticipation or fear, or anxiety about how others might respond. But I think, coming to it with, without that, merely saying how can I honor everybody involved? Right, and not just out for me, but but really try to honor everyone and an aiming for that, and if it gets sabotaged, it gets sabotaged. And that's where, again, a surrendered for me. I'm just, I'm already thinking about, I'm like to be surrendered even to that right To be surrendered to the response of others, because in the past, you know years of my life, it's the anticipation of a response or the response itself that would absolutely control me. And you know I'm at a place in my life where I just won't allow that anymore. And you know, hallelujah, amen. You know, the beautiful thing is, I'm already partway there.

Speaker 3: 28:28

I feel like a partway there and now it's okay.

Speaker 2: 28:30

Lord, you know, sustain me and show me the rest of the way what that looks like. You know day in and day out, even right how great that we have these goals.

Speaker 1: 28:41

We have these an opportunity here in a forum to talk about the goals, and I'm sorry if this sounds like a broken record, but I don't care when the others beat us down or play whack a mole in our lives or with our missions, our life missions. I do not have the intestinal fortitude or smarts to handle it myself. I need to turn to my wife, who I trust, or you, or another guy that I trust. That's a common denominator in every facet of my life All the mountains I've climbed. I have never soloed a mountain. I can't think of one. It's generally with people I trust.

Speaker 2: 29:25

It's interesting because I have, and they usually end in disaster. Oh, I mean, they just had you know again. This is like years and years and years ago. But it's like where people in my life said I don't know if that's a good idea, I probably wouldn't write really question. I'm like, yeah, they don't get it. They just don't see what I see.

Speaker 1: 29:44

I wish they were as smart as I was Right.

Speaker 2: 29:48

It's a disaster.

Speaker 1: 29:50

We don't have a button for that.

Speaker 2: 29:52

Oh, my goodness, but no, so I'm with you. I'm with you. I've been seeking wise counsel from those closest to us and for me, especially in recent years, that's been a lifeline. I mean an absolute lifeline, and being able to provide that for others as well.

Speaker 1: 30:12

Ending well, being surrendered, living a chiseled life so that I can see the beauty that God made in me, have nothing to do with happy ending. You might be happy at the end, but I want to be clear to anybody who's listening that we are talking about making choices in our lives. It's just like you choose to go left or right. You know when you're walking around something. What you're deciding to do to embrace solitude and to live a surrendered life are huge choices and priorities you're making in your life and you're giving voice to it, knowing you're gonna be held accountable. Your friends, the people you trust in your life, including me, are gonna ask you about it. How's that going? And we will talk it through.

Speaker 1: 31:00

We will talk about primarily the challenges stopping us from living surrendered lives and the victories we will. But the challenges tend to come up in our faces and you know me. I'm down for the celebration. I want to be in the victory dance. I love it. If I'm in the end zone, I'm gonna act like I've been there before. So how do we bring this to a fun and optimistic and positive conclusion for our listeners?

Speaker 2: 31:30

So I think you know, as you just said, I think that's a great exclamation point is simply that you know ending well is worth it, no matter what right, I agree, and it's just not. It's not about. It's not about, you know, the prize or the, you know I won't say, it's not about the result, because there is a result, there is a desired result, you know, and that's, you know, wholeness, and you know it might be, you know, just flourishing, right, just godly flourishing, and it might not go well, it just might not, and so you know, but it's worth pursuing. It's worth pursuing and I think that you know approaching something like that with laziness, because it might be painful or there might be consequences that we don't care for or circumstances that are challenging, you know in that, or it's uncomfortable, right, we can maybe just avoid it, and it's and that's just laziness.

Speaker 1: 32:43

Ending well doesn't mean you're the only winner in that ending right. As Christian men, we are called to look at the impact of the pebble in the pot right you ripple out and if you're planning to end something, whatever it is all the relationships I mentioned earlier we are not responsible for that's the word is. God is. But your consideration in how that ending works is absolutely looking at how it impacts other people. It's what we do every day, and who knows better than you that you try not to do that with a profit and loss type of mentality? Right, right.

Speaker 2: 33:26

And it was a heart for God. Yeah, like, I mean, I'm thinking of you know, thankfully, I have a happy, thriving marriage, you know, as do you, but I'm thinking of people you know that have in my life, that have recently gone through, you know, horrific divorces, and you know many of our listeners, right, and so I'm thinking of those people. I haven't been through that and I imagine it to be incredibly challenging, especially when it's contentious and there's there are, you know, marital possessions involved and sort of this unwinding that needs to happen, children, children and, oh my goodness, the men. And so to approach that with surrender has got to be. It just requires a work of God. I mean, I just I don't see how it's humanly possible without you know, without God, to equip you with what you would need to go through, that right, to approach something like that and ending like that with a heart that says I don't need to fight for what's mine. Well, I don't know, man, that's messy, you know, and that's just something I'm not, you know. So I'm saying all that because I can imagine a listener going well, yeah, that's pretty black and white, but you haven't been in my shoes, you know, and I'm just calling it out Like no, I haven't. And it's not all black and white, it's messy and requires wisdom and discernment and prayer and godly counsel and approaching the throne of grace to say how am I possibly going to do this? Well, honoring you, god, in this process. And he will make a way.

Speaker 2: 35:09

And I just walked through this with Christine and I walked through this with a couple that we know, with a woman in particular, and it was a years long process and coming to the end of it, and she was just getting beat down over and over and over and there was deception and manipulation and just it was awful. Somehow, by the grace of God, she was able to approach it with this surrendered heart to say, lord, like it's all yours, make a way where there seems no way. I know that you won't leave me on the curb with nothing. I just know you won't do, you're gonna make a way. And she went in with that confidence. It took a really long time for her to get there, but she did ultimately and just said I'm gonna remain calm and I'm going to engage the process, knowing that God is carrying me through it. And he made a way. He made a way and I realized that maybe that's not the story for everybody.

Speaker 1: 36:18

It may not be the story for everybody, but I wanna make a declaration and you know how we love to do that, while often outcomes are out of our control, we want to say that, while we haven't walked in everybody's shoes, you listener may have something going on and be thinking these guys have no idea what I'm going through. I understand we don't, but God does Correct. And I want to say the world is gonna measure your ending in a certain way and we want everybody listening to have a quote unquote good year in 2024, whatever that means by any worldly estimation. But the one thing we you and I are absolutely locked in on is that we believe in our God. We trust in our God, we know God will find a way and we want you all to have the same confidence.

Speaker 1: 37:15

Living it out is a challenge every minute, not just every day, but every minute. But that confidence believing, trusting in our King is essential to any other part of this working out. Well, don't let the world put the judgment on you. Don't let a worldly measure let you decide whether you wound up with 10 bucks or 10 million bucks, just to use a financial analogy. It doesn't. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about walking in faith, showing up in grace at the foot of the cross and believing we believe.

Speaker 2: 37:53

Yeah, absolutely, and God knows. Again, I just keep going back like God knows, and it's all His, and he will direct your steps and he will guide you and as you step in faith and obedience, he will be your King and your Lord and your provider and your protector and all of those things that you need, that we need. He will fulfill those roles as we allow Him to, as we allow Him to, and we stop trying to be that or look for that in some other place. And so that is my prayer, that is my prayer for every single person listening this year that, whatever your circumstances are, that God will bring you to that place, that place of being chiseled and surrendered in 2024. And that's what we've got.

Speaker 1: 38:51

Perfect. I like that. No, no. It's a great, great way to tie together the ending, remembering that we want the best for anyone listening, and in our quest, the journey towards a surrendered life, we invite you to chisel away Some of the things you've piled on from your past, some of the wounds that you have, and get down to who God made in you when you look in the mirror. We want you to see beauty. We want you to see joy. We want you to see happiness. Fruits of the spirit is what we want you to see, because that's what God designed.

Speaker 2: 39:25

Amen, peace, peace. God bless you.

Speaker 3: 39:29

Sounds like it's time for me to take an inventory. What do I need less of, what do I need more of? What do I need to throw away as quickly as possible and what do I need to start even faster than that? Sometimes, endings are out of our hands because life is messy. People are broken, but, as the guys alluded to, when we're walking with God, spending time in his word, listening for the Holy Spirit in our lives and bringing our stuff to the foot of the cross, every day, endings come to make way for new beginnings. I have to spend some time considering my word for 2024, but what's yours gonna be, lord, please continue to use this podcast to impact the lives of all who listen. I ask that you would bring hope and healing to each and every one of them. Meet them right where they are and reveal yourself to them like only you can do, in Jesus' name amen.

Speaker 2: 40:28

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